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	<title>Comments on: Why cellulosic ethanol will not save us?</title>
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		<title>By: Blue Fire</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/comment-page-1/#comment-830246</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue Fire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 00:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venturebeat.com/contributors/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/#comment-830246</guid>
		<description>Im not sure where you got your information from but for cellulosic ethanol to occur you would not be cutting down existing biomass you would be manufacturing a plant called swiftgrass which can grow incredibly alrge in a short amount of time and contains high cellulose and yes some land would be used to grow this plant but existing farms would not be taken which people commonly mistake becasue cellulosic ethanol is ethanol derieved from ALL plant material which includes lawn shavings and left over stock from farmers fields.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Im not sure where you got your information from but for cellulosic ethanol to occur you would not be cutting down existing biomass you would be manufacturing a plant called swiftgrass which can grow incredibly alrge in a short amount of time and contains high cellulose and yes some land would be used to grow this plant but existing farms would not be taken which people commonly mistake becasue cellulosic ethanol is ethanol derieved from ALL plant material which includes lawn shavings and left over stock from farmers fields.</p>
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		<title>By: Duane Miller</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/comment-page-1/#comment-815163</link>
		<dc:creator>Duane Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 18:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venturebeat.com/contributors/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/#comment-815163</guid>
		<description>I HAVE BEEN TALKING WITH OTHER SCIENTISTS  ON THIS VERY IMPORTANT MISCOCEPTION .WHEN WILL WE EVER GET A TRUTH TELLING INTELLIGENT POLITITION,THAT WILL MOTIVATE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.THANKS FOR THE INFO ,THE TRUTH WILL SET US FREE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I HAVE BEEN TALKING WITH OTHER SCIENTISTS  ON THIS VERY IMPORTANT MISCOCEPTION .WHEN WILL WE EVER GET A TRUTH TELLING INTELLIGENT POLITITION,THAT WILL MOTIVATE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.THANKS FOR THE INFO ,THE TRUTH WILL SET US FREE.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/comment-page-1/#comment-812730</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 16:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venturebeat.com/contributors/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/#comment-812730</guid>
		<description>i know i&#039;m kinda digging this up from the distant past, but i couldn&#039;t help but to respond to this paragraph in mark wendman&#039;s comment:

&quot;Ethanol will not “save” anyone, it will though permit a relatively seamless transition of much of the existing internal combustion / gasoline infrastructure to a cleaner alternative fueling, without requiring onerous changes to much of the auto manufacturing design and production.&quot;

this kind of thinking is exactly the root of the problem.  why not require changes to auto manufacturing, design and production?  

we absolutely need to change these things, along with ending the existing model of &#039;suburban&#039; living and our culture of consumption in general.

why do we want to transition seamlessly from existing infrastructure to alternative fuel? 

it comes down to this: burning carbon based fuel is burning carbon based fuel, why split hairs?... eventually we will need a completely new system, infrastructure and all, so why not start now?

taking those points into consideration shows that mark&#039;s comment ignore our real long-term needs, unlike the original article which is spot on in this respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i know i&#8217;m kinda digging this up from the distant past, but i couldn&#8217;t help but to respond to this paragraph in mark wendman&#8217;s comment:</p>
<p>&#8220;Ethanol will not “save” anyone, it will though permit a relatively seamless transition of much of the existing internal combustion / gasoline infrastructure to a cleaner alternative fueling, without requiring onerous changes to much of the auto manufacturing design and production.&#8221;</p>
<p>this kind of thinking is exactly the root of the problem.  why not require changes to auto manufacturing, design and production?  </p>
<p>we absolutely need to change these things, along with ending the existing model of &#8217;suburban&#8217; living and our culture of consumption in general.</p>
<p>why do we want to transition seamlessly from existing infrastructure to alternative fuel? </p>
<p>it comes down to this: burning carbon based fuel is burning carbon based fuel, why split hairs?&#8230; eventually we will need a completely new system, infrastructure and all, so why not start now?</p>
<p>taking those points into consideration shows that mark&#8217;s comment ignore our real long-term needs, unlike the original article which is spot on in this respect.</p>
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		<title>By: annual credit first other report service</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/comment-page-1/#comment-802056</link>
		<dc:creator>annual credit first other report service</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 20:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venturebeat.com/contributors/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/#comment-802056</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;annual credit first other report service...&lt;/strong&gt;

Your post was great, I totally agree....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>annual credit first other report service&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Your post was great, I totally agree&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Tad W. Patzek</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/comment-page-1/#comment-796232</link>
		<dc:creator>Tad W. Patzek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venturebeat.com/contributors/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/#comment-796232</guid>
		<description>I am glad (and very sad at the same time) that everything I have said and wrote about agrofuels in the last 5 years has come true, and then some.  In fact, my often-ridiculed scientific findings (not opinions!) from 2-3 years ago may be viewed as overly optimistic.  The thoughts contained in this Venture Beat article have been developed in my OECD paper that has caused such a furor in Europe that you will have a hard time finding it in the US when using Google.  All other search engines work just fine and the OECD paper shows up as the second most popular link to my website.  For the last 4 years, the most popular link has been my paper on the thermodynamics of the corn ethanol cycle.  So here is the direct link to the OECD paper:
http://petroleum.berkeley.edu/papers/Biofuels/OECDSept102007TWPatzek.pdf
Enjoy and cry - :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am glad (and very sad at the same time) that everything I have said and wrote about agrofuels in the last 5 years has come true, and then some.  In fact, my often-ridiculed scientific findings (not opinions!) from 2-3 years ago may be viewed as overly optimistic.  The thoughts contained in this Venture Beat article have been developed in my OECD paper that has caused such a furor in Europe that you will have a hard time finding it in the US when using Google.  All other search engines work just fine and the OECD paper shows up as the second most popular link to my website.  For the last 4 years, the most popular link has been my paper on the thermodynamics of the corn ethanol cycle.  So here is the direct link to the OECD paper:<br />
<a href="http://petroleum.berkeley.edu/papers/Biofuels/OECDSept102007TWPatzek.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://petroleum.berkeley.edu/papers/Biofuels/OECDSept102007TWPatzek.pdf</a><br />
Enjoy and cry &#8211; <img src='http://venturebeat.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Are biofuels bad? The debate doesn’t end; meanwhile, crisis approaches from coal and oil</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/comment-page-1/#comment-796188</link>
		<dc:creator>Are biofuels bad? The debate doesn’t end; meanwhile, crisis approaches from coal and oil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venturebeat.com/contributors/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/#comment-796188</guid>
		<description>[...] in particular cellulosic ethanol, are likely to remain a very partial solution, check out a past contributor post by UC Berkeley professor Ted Patzek. Also worth reading is this Biopact article on new land use [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in particular cellulosic ethanol, are likely to remain a very partial solution, check out a past contributor post by UC Berkeley professor Ted Patzek. Also worth reading is this Biopact article on new land use [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Are biofuels bad? The debate doesn&#8217;t end; meanwhile, crisis approaches from coal and oil &#187; VentureBeat</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/comment-page-1/#comment-795888</link>
		<dc:creator>Are biofuels bad? The debate doesn&#8217;t end; meanwhile, crisis approaches from coal and oil &#187; VentureBeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venturebeat.com/contributors/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/#comment-795888</guid>
		<description>[...] in particular cellulosic ethanol, are likely to remain a very partial solution, check out a past contributor post by UC Berkeley professor Ted Patzek. Also worth reading is this Biopact article on new land use [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in particular cellulosic ethanol, are likely to remain a very partial solution, check out a past contributor post by UC Berkeley professor Ted Patzek. Also worth reading is this Biopact article on new land use [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bernie</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/comment-page-1/#comment-750136</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venturebeat.com/contributors/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/#comment-750136</guid>
		<description>Interesting stuff, thanks for creating this site</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting stuff, thanks for creating this site</p>
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		<title>By: VentureBeat &#187; Roundup: VC tax fails, Feedster folds, and more</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/comment-page-1/#comment-672842</link>
		<dc:creator>VentureBeat &#187; Roundup: VC tax fails, Feedster folds, and more</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 00:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venturebeat.com/contributors/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/#comment-672842</guid>
		<description>[...] source of ethanol. (For those of you about to point out cellulosic ethanol as an answer, check out this piece from our own Contributor series, written by UC Berkeley professor Ted [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] source of ethanol. (For those of you about to point out cellulosic ethanol as an answer, check out this piece from our own Contributor series, written by UC Berkeley professor Ted [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Johnson</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/comment-page-1/#comment-17567</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venturebeat.com/contributors/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/#comment-17567</guid>
		<description>Great stuff and scientifically professional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great stuff and scientifically professional.</p>
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		<title>By: Betty Pfeiffer</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/comment-page-1/#comment-17365</link>
		<dc:creator>Betty Pfeiffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jan 2007 00:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venturebeat.com/contributors/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/#comment-17365</guid>
		<description>I read a comment you made about refining fuel twice to drive a car once (or something to that effect) and I can&#039;t find it back. Can you point me to the source? Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read a comment you made about refining fuel twice to drive a car once (or something to that effect) and I can&#8217;t find it back. Can you point me to the source? Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: rx__</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/comment-page-1/#comment-16886</link>
		<dc:creator>rx__</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venturebeat.com/contributors/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/#comment-16886</guid>
		<description>towelling bedspread Mikoyan Atlanta hypothesize!Kimball Newtonian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>towelling bedspread Mikoyan Atlanta hypothesize!Kimball Newtonian</p>
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		<title>By: Userism &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2006-11-09</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/comment-page-1/#comment-16824</link>
		<dc:creator>Userism &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2006-11-09</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venturebeat.com/contributors/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/#comment-16824</guid>
		<description>[...] Venture Beat Contributors Â» Why cellulosic ethanol will not save us? sounds like biofuel is not really a goer. (tags: fossilfuels biomass biofuel) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Venture Beat Contributors Â» Why cellulosic ethanol will not save us? sounds like biofuel is not really a goer. (tags: fossilfuels biomass biofuel) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tad Patzek</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/comment-page-1/#comment-16806</link>
		<dc:creator>Tad Patzek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venturebeat.com/contributors/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/#comment-16806</guid>
		<description>Gregb,

You have made an excellent observation about the monumental impact of population growth on the rate of consumption of the Earth. By 2050, the US population is projected to grow by another 110 - 160 million people.  If we continue to use energy the way we do today, we will need an extra 50 EJ of primary energy per year by 2050.  If this were to be so, the US would have to capture all world oil from the main Hubbert cycle of global oil production to satisfy our transportation fuel needs. If we were to convert most biomass production in the US to energy, we would be able to produce only about 11 EJ of ethanol.  So the huge brick that will smash our collective head is already falling.

The estimates above give the US (pronounced as â€œusâ€) about 1 year to start seriously limiting our population growth and cutting energy consumption.  Whether we will undertake the monumental task of transforming our society to live in more harmony with the Earth, or run over her in our ethanol-powered SUVs, is up to us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gregb,</p>
<p>You have made an excellent observation about the monumental impact of population growth on the rate of consumption of the Earth. By 2050, the US population is projected to grow by another 110 &#8211; 160 million people.  If we continue to use energy the way we do today, we will need an extra 50 EJ of primary energy per year by 2050.  If this were to be so, the US would have to capture all world oil from the main Hubbert cycle of global oil production to satisfy our transportation fuel needs. If we were to convert most biomass production in the US to energy, we would be able to produce only about 11 EJ of ethanol.  So the huge brick that will smash our collective head is already falling.</p>
<p>The estimates above give the US (pronounced as â€œusâ€) about 1 year to start seriously limiting our population growth and cutting energy consumption.  Whether we will undertake the monumental task of transforming our society to live in more harmony with the Earth, or run over her in our ethanol-powered SUVs, is up to us.</p>
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		<title>By: Alice Friedemann</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/comment-page-1/#comment-16799</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice Friedemann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venturebeat.com/contributors/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/#comment-16799</guid>
		<description>Because corn is so profitable, farmers in low rainfall states are switching from wheat to corn, further depleting groundwater and fossil aquifers (i.e. the Ogallala).

In addition, the feedlot industry is asking farmers not to renew their land in ten-year contracts with the NRCS (national resources conservation service) so that more corn can be grown to feed cattle with. The NRCS pays farmers not to grow crops on land that is highly erodible. This land is unsuitable for crops.

Topsoil is the most important mineral any nation has.  I have nothing against the hunter/gatherer lifestyle, but I am rather fond of civilization, and I hate to see us destroying our nations topsoil for a mirage and making the lives of our descendants even more miserable as fossil fuel energy declines while population continues to increase.

Tad Patzek is one of the few scientists brave enough to speak out on this important issue, even though I know from private communications with other scientists that they agree with him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because corn is so profitable, farmers in low rainfall states are switching from wheat to corn, further depleting groundwater and fossil aquifers (i.e. the Ogallala).</p>
<p>In addition, the feedlot industry is asking farmers not to renew their land in ten-year contracts with the NRCS (national resources conservation service) so that more corn can be grown to feed cattle with. The NRCS pays farmers not to grow crops on land that is highly erodible. This land is unsuitable for crops.</p>
<p>Topsoil is the most important mineral any nation has.  I have nothing against the hunter/gatherer lifestyle, but I am rather fond of civilization, and I hate to see us destroying our nations topsoil for a mirage and making the lives of our descendants even more miserable as fossil fuel energy declines while population continues to increase.</p>
<p>Tad Patzek is one of the few scientists brave enough to speak out on this important issue, even though I know from private communications with other scientists that they agree with him.</p>
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