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	<title>Comments on: Thefind, the search engine, not as clean as we thought</title>
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	<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/</link>
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		<title>By: The courtesan sisters of comparison search, and Thefind &#187; VentureBeat</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-826387</link>
		<dc:creator>The courtesan sisters of comparison search, and Thefind &#187; VentureBeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/#comment-826387</guid>
		<description>[...] See our update on Thefind, where we have revised our opinion on the company. Its results aren&#039;t as clean as we [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] See our update on Thefind, where we have revised our opinion on the company. Its results aren&#8217;t as clean as we [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sarasota Vacation Rentals</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-627636</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarasota Vacation Rentals</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 02:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/#comment-627636</guid>
		<description>tortious       torsion &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sarasota-vacation-rentals.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sarasota Vacation Rentals&lt;/a&gt;  .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tortious       torsion <a href="http://www.sarasota-vacation-rentals.com" rel="nofollow">Sarasota Vacation Rentals</a>  .</p>
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		<title>By: Hoaleduy</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-619544</link>
		<dc:creator>Hoaleduy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 03:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/#comment-619544</guid>
		<description>adhesive   Xin chao cac ban,    adjoint adjurors admires adnoun .adopters Chung toi ban phan mem quan ly nha hang:  adorns adsorber   advancer advisees .adzuki abc abc  aegises aerators aerobic aerosol .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>adhesive   Xin chao cac ban,<br />
    adjoint adjurors admires adnoun .adopters Chung toi ban phan mem quan ly nha hang:<br />
  adorns adsorber   advancer advisees .adzuki abc abc  aegises aerators aerobic aerosol .</p>
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		<title>By: Comparison Shopping Lord</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-387293</link>
		<dc:creator>Comparison Shopping Lord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2007 22:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/#comment-387293</guid>
		<description>In A.D. 2007 Comparison Shopping War was beginning.

CEO: What happen?
CTO: Somebody set up us the bomb.
CTO: We get signal.
CEO: What !
CTO: Main screen turn on.
CEO: It&#039;s Search Engine!!
Search Engine: How are you gentlemen !!
Search Engine: All your organic clicks are belong to us.
Search Engine: You are on the way to destruction.
CEO: What you say !!
Search Engine: You have no chance to survive make your time.
Search Engine:  pay us more for clicks now ... HA HA HA HA ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In A.D. 2007 Comparison Shopping War was beginning.</p>
<p>CEO: What happen?<br />
CTO: Somebody set up us the bomb.<br />
CTO: We get signal.<br />
CEO: What !<br />
CTO: Main screen turn on.<br />
CEO: It&#8217;s Search Engine!!<br />
Search Engine: How are you gentlemen !!<br />
Search Engine: All your organic clicks are belong to us.<br />
Search Engine: You are on the way to destruction.<br />
CEO: What you say !!<br />
Search Engine: You have no chance to survive make your time.<br />
Search Engine:  pay us more for clicks now &#8230; HA HA HA HA &#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Sramana Mitra</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-384878</link>
		<dc:creator>Sramana Mitra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/#comment-384878</guid>
		<description>Hi there, 
You may want to read this to get a feel for the company: http://sramanamitra.com/2007/04/03/thefind-lifestyle-shopping-part-1/ 
Sramana</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there,<br />
You may want to read this to get a feel for the company: <a href="http://sramanamitra.com/2007/04/03/thefind-lifestyle-shopping-part-1/" rel="nofollow">http://sramanamitra.com/2007/04/03/thefind-lifestyle-shopping-part-1/</a><br />
Sramana</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Marshall</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-164305</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 15:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/#comment-164305</guid>
		<description>Not sure what you want me to say. I reported things as I saw. Kumar agreed that it was misleading and has since changed. The sponsored ads were not clearly marked, and that&#039;s why I felt misled. Gary is wrong to say they were clearly marked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure what you want me to say. I reported things as I saw. Kumar agreed that it was misleading and has since changed. The sponsored ads were not clearly marked, and that&#8217;s why I felt misled. Gary is wrong to say they were clearly marked.</p>
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		<title>By: VC O'Neil</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-162807</link>
		<dc:creator>VC O'Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 07:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/#comment-162807</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d be interested to hear Matt Marshall&#039;s commentary on this.  He sounds fairly certain that the first two sponsored results were not marked as such in his tests.  

From the article, above:
&lt;i&gt;In the example of a search for “dress shirts” we mentioned in our first story, the two top results were sponsored ads, not natural results — and there was nothing clearly demarcating them.&lt;/i&gt;

I see that comparisonengines.com said, in February, that ads from shopping.com will be clearly labeled.  But I see that, as of early April, Matt found otherwise.  He even confronted TheFind&#039;s CEO with this specific issue, and the CEO confirmed it.  Again, from the article above:

&lt;i&gt;We asked Kumar about this, and he agreed that this was misleading, and apparently has since changed this (we no longer see the women’s clothing).&lt;/i&gt;

It smells like TheFind was caught red-handed and is now scrambling to rewrite history.  Either that, or VentureBeat was irresponsible in its reporting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d be interested to hear Matt Marshall&#8217;s commentary on this.  He sounds fairly certain that the first two sponsored results were not marked as such in his tests.  </p>
<p>From the article, above:<br />
<i>In the example of a search for “dress shirts” we mentioned in our first story, the two top results were sponsored ads, not natural results — and there was nothing clearly demarcating them.</i></p>
<p>I see that comparisonengines.com said, in February, that ads from shopping.com will be clearly labeled.  But I see that, as of early April, Matt found otherwise.  He even confronted TheFind&#8217;s CEO with this specific issue, and the CEO confirmed it.  Again, from the article above:</p>
<p><i>We asked Kumar about this, and he agreed that this was misleading, and apparently has since changed this (we no longer see the women’s clothing).</i></p>
<p>It smells like TheFind was caught red-handed and is now scrambling to rewrite history.  Either that, or VentureBeat was irresponsible in its reporting.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-100144</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 00:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/#comment-100144</guid>
		<description>To clarify, TheFind has *always* marked the sponsored results with a &quot;sponsored&quot; banner. ComparisonEngines.com posted on this on Feb. 10, 2007:

http://www.comparisonengines.com/2007/02/10/thefind-monetizes-shopping-search-through-shoppingcom/

From the beginning the sponsored results have been marked. The misunderstanding is that not every search has sponsored results. In those cases, the first two results are unpaid and won&#039;t be marked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To clarify, TheFind has *always* marked the sponsored results with a &#8220;sponsored&#8221; banner. ComparisonEngines.com posted on this on Feb. 10, 2007:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.comparisonengines.com/2007/02/10/thefind-monetizes-shopping-search-through-shoppingcom/" rel="nofollow">http://www.comparisonengines.com/2007/02/10/thefind-monetizes-shopping-search-through-shoppingcom/</a></p>
<p>From the beginning the sponsored results have been marked. The misunderstanding is that not every search has sponsored results. In those cases, the first two results are unpaid and won&#8217;t be marked.</p>
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		<title>By: whycay</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-14437</link>
		<dc:creator>whycay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 06:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/#comment-14437</guid>
		<description>Cay,

I entered the query &quot;right hand ring&quot; on theFind&#039;s home page and the URL is http://www.thefind.com/main/query.php?qS=usr&amp;query=right+hand+ring.  This is not the same as what you have written.  Do you work for theFind?

To all others,

If theFind needs to buy traffic from Google, then, can they make profit in the long run?  Well, perhaps, only their investors need to be worried about this.

I am not convinced that their results are unbiased as items on the first page are all from affiliate programs.  Nonetheless, they do return LOTS of products on any search I entered.  But, the presentation has a long way to improve.  Many same products from different vendors are spread out widely.  It makes comparison a difficult job for end users.  Isn&#039;t comparison the primary reason why we come to theFind for shopping?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cay,</p>
<p>I entered the query &#8220;right hand ring&#8221; on theFind&#8217;s home page and the URL is <a href="http://www.thefind.com/main/query.php?qS=usr&amp;query=right+hand+ring" rel="nofollow">http://www.thefind.com/main/query.php?qS=usr&amp;query=right+hand+ring</a>.  This is not the same as what you have written.  Do you work for theFind?</p>
<p>To all others,</p>
<p>If theFind needs to buy traffic from Google, then, can they make profit in the long run?  Well, perhaps, only their investors need to be worried about this.</p>
<p>I am not convinced that their results are unbiased as items on the first page are all from affiliate programs.  Nonetheless, they do return LOTS of products on any search I entered.  But, the presentation has a long way to improve.  Many same products from different vendors are spread out widely.  It makes comparison a difficult job for end users.  Isn&#8217;t comparison the primary reason why we come to theFind for shopping?</p>
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		<title>By: Dammit</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-12581</link>
		<dc:creator>Dammit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 02:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/#comment-12581</guid>
		<description>I just saw the response on TheFind&#039;s blog.  I don&#039;t think anyone can fault a company for placing  ads on a page... that&#039;s not my particular beef.  I even understand their desire to participate in as many affiliate programs as possible.

If, however, they were passing off the first two search listings as &lt;i&gt;extremely relevant&lt;/i&gt; while in fact they were &lt;i&gt;paid listings&lt;/i&gt; but not clearly marked as ads, that suggests something is very wrong, especially at a company that touts itself as unbiased.  

In the example identified by the author, it&#039;s a nice comic aside that these two listings happened to be LESS relevant than the other items on the page: women&#039;s clothing in response to a &quot;dress shirts&quot; query.

Unless TheFind&#039;s development team plays it incredibly sloppy, I can&#039;t believe this was anything but a considered management decision.  At a search company, hours of meetings go into the relevance and presentation of search results.

Ok, I&#039;ll get off my high horse now.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just saw the response on TheFind&#8217;s blog.  I don&#8217;t think anyone can fault a company for placing  ads on a page&#8230; that&#8217;s not my particular beef.  I even understand their desire to participate in as many affiliate programs as possible.</p>
<p>If, however, they were passing off the first two search listings as <i>extremely relevant</i> while in fact they were <i>paid listings</i> but not clearly marked as ads, that suggests something is very wrong, especially at a company that touts itself as unbiased.  </p>
<p>In the example identified by the author, it&#8217;s a nice comic aside that these two listings happened to be LESS relevant than the other items on the page: women&#8217;s clothing in response to a &#8220;dress shirts&#8221; query.</p>
<p>Unless TheFind&#8217;s development team plays it incredibly sloppy, I can&#8217;t believe this was anything but a considered management decision.  At a search company, hours of meetings go into the relevance and presentation of search results.</p>
<p>Ok, I&#8217;ll get off my high horse now.  <img src='http://venturebeat.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tad Askew</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-12351</link>
		<dc:creator>Tad Askew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/#comment-12351</guid>
		<description>Cay - your loyalty to thefind is endearing.

I have also noticed that theFind displays the &#039;sponsor stripe&#039; on the first couple of results. Which seems fair to me.

However the issue is that there are many more results on the page for which theFind receives commission. It is pretty easy to peel the URLs and detect the underlying affiliate ids to commission junction, linkshare, etc. My guess is that some competitors brought this to Matt&#039;s attention and he published the update.

No great mystery there.

Siva Komar&#039;s response on theFind blogs looks reasonable - the fault is that it is somewhat belated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cay &#8211; your loyalty to thefind is endearing.</p>
<p>I have also noticed that theFind displays the &#8217;sponsor stripe&#8217; on the first couple of results. Which seems fair to me.</p>
<p>However the issue is that there are many more results on the page for which theFind receives commission. It is pretty easy to peel the URLs and detect the underlying affiliate ids to commission junction, linkshare, etc. My guess is that some competitors brought this to Matt&#8217;s attention and he published the update.</p>
<p>No great mystery there.</p>
<p>Siva Komar&#8217;s response on theFind blogs looks reasonable &#8211; the fault is that it is somewhat belated.</p>
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		<title>By: Cay</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-12264</link>
		<dc:creator>Cay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 23:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/#comment-12264</guid>
		<description>Honestly, I&#039;m confused. Matt praised TheFind last week and this week he&#039;s making them sound like the anti-christ. As I mentioned, I&#039;ve shopped on TheFind quite a few times and I always see the sponsored spots marked with the little banners (like the URL I posted above). So, I don&#039;t think that they&#039;re doing anything wrong. 

I don&#039;t think Matt&#039;s trying to be malicious, but it seems strange that his views turned 180 degrees. I also read what Mr. Kumar had to say on TheFind&#039;s blog too and it sounds legit to me (he commented above).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, I&#8217;m confused. Matt praised TheFind last week and this week he&#8217;s making them sound like the anti-christ. As I mentioned, I&#8217;ve shopped on TheFind quite a few times and I always see the sponsored spots marked with the little banners (like the URL I posted above). So, I don&#8217;t think that they&#8217;re doing anything wrong. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Matt&#8217;s trying to be malicious, but it seems strange that his views turned 180 degrees. I also read what Mr. Kumar had to say on TheFind&#8217;s blog too and it sounds legit to me (he commented above).</p>
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		<title>By: Dammit</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-12235</link>
		<dc:creator>Dammit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:25:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/#comment-12235</guid>
		<description>Cay, 

Everyone&#039;s gotta make money, baby. But, most of us prefer they do it in way that doesn&#039;t mislead.  The author of this piece, Matt Marshall, is complaining about deception at TheFind:

&lt;i&gt;Thefind blurs the line between ads and natural results even more than other sites. In the example of a search for â€œdress shirtsâ€ we mentioned in our first story, &lt;b&gt;the two top results were sponsored ads, not natural results â€” and there was nothing clearly demarcating them.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

Also, according to this article, after Matt called them on this, they changed their ways.  WTG Matt!

So, I guess I don&#039;t understand your point, Cay. Do you think Matt is maliciously spreading falsehoods?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cay, </p>
<p>Everyone&#8217;s gotta make money, baby. But, most of us prefer they do it in way that doesn&#8217;t mislead.  The author of this piece, Matt Marshall, is complaining about deception at TheFind:</p>
<p><i>Thefind blurs the line between ads and natural results even more than other sites. In the example of a search for â€œdress shirtsâ€ we mentioned in our first story, <b>the two top results were sponsored ads, not natural results â€” and there was nothing clearly demarcating them.</b><b></b></i></p>
<p>Also, according to this article, after Matt called them on this, they changed their ways.  WTG Matt!</p>
<p>So, I guess I don&#8217;t understand your point, Cay. Do you think Matt is maliciously spreading falsehoods?</p>
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		<title>By: Cay</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-12206</link>
		<dc:creator>Cay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/#comment-12206</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve used TheFind quite a few times and I&#039;ve had great success with their search results. I&#039;m not sure what all the complaints are about. I&#039;ve found things there that I haven&#039;t been able to locate anywhere else. I find that their sponsored spots are very clearly defined with a banner that says &quot;sponsored&quot;. http://www.thefind.com/main/query.php?query=right+hand+ring What&#039;s the problem?!? They gotta make money!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve used TheFind quite a few times and I&#8217;ve had great success with their search results. I&#8217;m not sure what all the complaints are about. I&#8217;ve found things there that I haven&#8217;t been able to locate anywhere else. I find that their sponsored spots are very clearly defined with a banner that says &#8220;sponsored&#8221;. <a href="http://www.thefind.com/main/query.php?query=right+hand+ring" rel="nofollow">http://www.thefind.com/main/query.php?query=right+hand+ring</a> What&#8217;s the problem?!? They gotta make money!</p>
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		<title>By: Dammit</title>
		<link>http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-12203</link>
		<dc:creator>Dammit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/04/02/thefind-the-search-engine-not-as-clean-as-we-thought/#comment-12203</guid>
		<description>The first two listings in their search results were paid placement? And they weren&#039;t marked as such?  That&#039;s a big &lt;b&gt;no no&lt;/b&gt; on the Web, especially for a company that positions itself as an alternative to all the sell-out shopping engines.

Quick... cover your tracks, guys!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first two listings in their search results were paid placement? And they weren&#8217;t marked as such?  That&#8217;s a big <b>no no</b> on the Web, especially for a company that positions itself as an alternative to all the sell-out shopping engines.</p>
<p>Quick&#8230; cover your tracks, guys!</p>
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