Could social gaming run afoul of gambling laws?

A variety of social network gaming applications are making lots of money from virtual goods. But could these services soon find themselves in trouble for allowing gambling — and get slapped with large fines or other punishment? The question matters like never before, and the answer’s not clear — although from my research, the risk seems relatively low.

Some companies, like Zynga, are rumored to be bringing in revenues of more than $100 million through games like Texas Hold ‘Em poker. This year alone, companies on Facebook’s platform could see $500 million in total revenue, and most of it is in the form of virtual goods purchases and advertising-based offers. Add in MySpace, other social networking sites with developer platforms  — and soon, the iPhone — and you can see how big this market already is, and will be.

The government has yet to make clear rules defining some forms of gambling in social games, especially when it comes to regulating virtual currencies and games. Until then, entrepreneurs need to be pro-active about not crossing the line, as a former federal prosecutor, a gambling-industry attorney and other legal experts tell me. The market is just that young.

What does the law say?

Generally, the Congressional Wire Act of 1961 bans any organization from transferring gambling-related funds between states or in and out of the country. The federal government has used the Wire Act to prosecute internet gambling-related sites in recent years, as well as affiliated organizations, such as local radio stations that have run gambling ads. The Act’s relevant language:

Whoever being engaged in the business of betting or wagering knowingly uses a wire communication facility for the transmission in interstate or foreign commerce of bets or wagers or information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers on any sporting event or contest, or for the transmission of a wire communication which entitles the recipient to receive money or credit as a result of bets or wagers, or for information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

But what is gambling on an application? The consensus among lawyers and entrepreneurs I’ve spoken with is that the app can’t let a user put something of value in, play a game of chance, and get real money out. For some games, like poker, things are a little bit more vague. Some states consider it a game of chance and so lump it in with other forms of illegal gambling. Other states consider it a game of skill, and in some form they may allow it. California, for example, has given out a limited number of municipal poker licenses.
At the same time, some forms of contests are permitted nationally, like free sweepstakes offers.

One risk, in any case, is that an application company — and possibly a social network that hosts an application — could be found liable for any gambling that users conduct within the application. For more on that, see this article, “Assessing liability of social networking sites,” by lawyer Joseph V. DeMarco, published last fall in the law journal World Online Gambling Law Report (fee required).

Another risk is that sites suspected of allowing gambling will get cut off from U.S. credit card transactions. Internet gambling sites come in a variety of forms, from for-pay poker social networks to sports betting to much else. But instead of going after every single site that might be gambling, the government has gone after financial institutions that conduct transactions like credit card payments for gambling sites. In 2006, Congress passed the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act; it forbids financial institutions from working with gambling sites, except for specific things like online lotteries, fantasy sports, and horse racing. As a result, financial services companies have stopped working with many these sites, and cut off their revenue.

Aside: There’s a bill now trying to legalize online gambling, championed by Barney Frank, a Democratic representative from Massachusetts.

But we’re talking virtual goods and currencies here — these can be either legal or illegal, depending on how they are used. Legal issues around virtual goods and gambling have only been tested out in other web services that generally use virtual goods. Prior to the rise of social networking platforms in the last couple of years, virtual goods and currencies were mostly found in the Western world in hardcore massive multi-player games like World of Warcraft or quirky virtual worlds like Second Life. The virtual goods business model has been far more common in Asia, driving profits for big companies like Tencent for years. Social networking platforms have made it much easier for friends to play games against each other, and compete for status within a game — the sort of mechanic that drives virtual goods sales.

Years ago, third parties tried to use Second Life’s virtual currency to set up full-fledged online casinos. Facing a federal investigation into third-party casinos operated in Second Life, as well as possible loss of access to credit card companies, owner Linden Labs banned all forms of gambling. That outcome wasn’t too surprising: The Second Life virtual currency, Linden dollars, could clearly be bought with real money, gambled, and cashed out.

To take another example, in World of Warcraft, you can also earn virtual gold — large black market sites have sprung up trying to illicitly buy and sell this gold, and use it in gambling. Game owner Blizzard avoids legal trouble by aggressively trying to shut down these sites and their activities.

What’s happening on social networks applications is at least somewhat different. Let’s take closer a look.

Defining the value of virtual goods and currencies

Most games let you either buy a currency directly or earn it through advertising offers; rent some movies from Netflix, get some virtual poker chips. These offers clearly have a monetary value to the advertiser, the game developer and the user. Clearly, the first requirement of gambling — that money goes into the system — is being met.

What about game-play — where’s the chance, or skill, the second qualification for gambling? Each game made by each developer might have a slightly different twist on the game-play dynamics. It doesn’t really matter, though, as it’s perfectly legal to play any sort of game as long as you can’t get money out. Even in the real world, it’s not always clear where the authorities draw the line. In Japan, for example, casino-style game Pachinko lets you earn currency in the form of small metal balls, which can then be traded for real-world items — or cash, under the ignoring eye of the Japanese police.

A key question, according to all of the lawyers I’ve spoken to, is how you define the value of a virtual good. Matt Jacobs is a Sacramento-based former federal prosecutor who was introduced to me through a source skeptical of the legality of some gaming activities in social networking apps. Having worked on gambling-related cases, he tells me this:

One of the potential issues in some games is how you get virtual goods out. Game developers will say ‘they’re not really being played for money, that what you win is not money.’ I’m not sure that this ultimately works. You’re getting something of value, or at least of arguable value. These goods are advertised as costing money, even just a buck or two. You can win virtual currency that’s clearly equivalent to real money, and use that to buy virtual gifts.

Let’s take the most prominent example of a game application, Zynga’s Texas Hold ‘Em, and see how it fits or doesn’t fit the definition of gambling. This game has comprised a large portion of the company’s revenue to date, and has helped it to more than 10 million daily active users — Zynga is currently the largest and most profitable app developer that I am aware of.

When you first start playing the game, you get chips worth $2,000 in the game’s virtual currency. To be clear, the dollar sign doesn’t mean real money — like many other games, Hold ‘Em uses the symbol to make the experience feel more life-like, Pincus tells me. Every time you login, you get thousands more free chips. And, like in real poker, players earn more chips through winning games. When you get more chips, you get special status indicators and access to high-chip tables where you can compete against the best players.

The game also lets you either buy virtual poker chips or take advertising offers to get them. If you want to get into the top tables or otherwise look like a pro even though you’re not, these mechanisms are how you do it. So money is going in. But what happens to it? Basically nothing, Zynga chief executive Mark Pincus explains. You can’t take money out of the game in any form of value; you don’t even win virtual prizes that might possibly be worth money.

But there’s a second-hand market for Zynga chips (see this Google results page for a bunch of these chip-selling sites). Credit card fraud rings buy up chips on Texas Hold ‘Em then re-sell them to players, typically through agreeing to meet in private rooms and purposefully losing poker games to the purchaser, Pincus says. His company has built up an internal fraud engineering group to aggressively fight fraudsters.

Being proactive about stopping second-hand markets is what companies need to do in order to stay above the law, gambling-industry expert lawyer and Zynga representative Anthony Cabot tells me — like what World of Warcraft has already done. Zynga retained Cabot to check that it’s games are legally compliant. His opinion is that they are. Zynga has also conducted user education throughout its application and hired Cabot and other lawyers to enforce its terms of service and prevent fraud.

When does a gift become valuable?

However, one seemingly gray area is that the Zynga app lets you send gifts to other poker players, like this virtual beer that I sent to colleague Anthony Ha. These gifts cost various amounts of chips (as displayed in dollar amounts). When you send somebody a gift, you see it on your Facebook wall and they see it in their homepage stream of activity. Some of these gifts, incidentally, also look a lot like Facebook’s own virtual gifts — which cost Facebook “credits.” Like Zynga’s poker chips, these credits can be bought using real money. But Facebook gifts work differently than Zynga’s poker gifts. Zynga’s poker gifts can’t be placed on other people’s walls, while doing that isn’t just an option for Facebook gifts but the reason they exist. So how does one define value here? Could the very act of placing a gift on your own wall — that you send someone else — be defined as getting money out? Could the visual similarity of Zynga gifts to Facebook gifts somehow imply that Zynga’s gift have similar value to Facebook gifts? The law is not clear on these matters.

For its part, Zynga doesn’t believe it is doing anything illegal here. These gifts are meant as a way of encouraging people to play poker more, Pincus explains — the point of the application, at its core, is to get people playing it as much as possible and competing for status. In terms of these gifts, Facebook limits Zynga’s users to sending only 16 gifts per day. The gifts cost between five and ten chip-dollars in the game. Users are being given a far greater number of chips per day. By this measure, the gifts are possibly worth as little as zero dollars in the game. Specifically, if you use Poker to send 16 gifts to your friends each day, displaying those gifts in their streams and on your home page, are you realizing any value outside of the app?

It certainly seems a stretch to call these gifts an instance of cashing out, but the law isn’t clear about how to value or not value virtual goods when they leave an application. Zynga is most likely fine in this instance, but all sorts of games use gift-sharing on Facebook itself. In some instances, a developer might choose to make it very expensive to send a gift to a friend through a game — making that gift worth more to users. When that gift gets posted on Facebook streams and walls, it could be quite valuable to users.

Conclusion: Caution

Stepping back, it’s hard to know if or how the government may try to prosecute social gaming companies. As a sign of this ambiguity, some lawyers who provided background for this article declined to go on the record because they were uncertain of where things might end up — and what positions their clients may end up taking as a result.

The scenarios are all over the place. Perhaps a gung-ho state attorney general will decide that social games are somehow gambling and try to get some headlines by going after the entire industry. This has happened to other popular web services, seemingly not because they are doing anything particularly bad, but because they are publicly-recognizable targets. Craigslist has been hounded by some attorney generals because prostitution rings use the service to advertise to customers — but the same attorney generals haven’t gone after print publications and other properties that run similar forms of advertising. Social networks themselves, including Facebook and MySpace, have also been targeted by attorney generals, allegedly because the sites haven’t done enough to protect minors from pedophilia — that’s even though many studies have shown that these social networks don’t see nearly as much of this activity as other sites.

It would be a shame if the emerging social gaming industry were singled out because grandstanding politicians think it will get them more headlines than going after more obviously gambling-themed sites. Companies like Zynga are pioneering new revenue models that don’t seem to go against the spirit of gambling laws, and in my non-expert opinion they should be left alone to innovate as long as they are not clearly breaking the law.

Or, perhaps Frank’s congressional bill that I mentioned earlier will get passed, and this will all become moot?

For now, entrepreneurs will be best served by giving extra thought to how they set up game mechanics. And, it might be time to retain a gambling attorney to go over any specific issues.

[Image credits: Second Life slot machine via Shon-Ting Fu; WoW image via Associated Content.]

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About the Author, Eric Eldon

Eric currently covers digital media technology and business news, especially what's happening on social networks and their platforms. He also writes and edits stories about venture capital, and lots of other stuff, too. He started at VentureBeat in the spring of 2007, half a year or so after Matt Marshall left his reporting job at the San Jose Mercury News to found the site. Eric previously cofounded a startup called Writewith, that was building editorial software for newspapers and other groups of writers. The startup didn't work out, but he learned a lot.

  • Does the federal government have enough to do? Should we be wasting taxpayers dollars going after virtual gambling with money that only exists in cyberspace. My Mafia properties are earning $77,695,750 per hour, does this mean I'm going to owe the IRS for the virtual dollars I'm earning? I bet the DemocRATs are salivating at the thought of taxing me out of my virtual cash. Come to think of it real dollars are a fiat currency anyway. They're not backed by anything and neither is the "cash" I'm earning in the Zynga games. So perhaps they are worth the same thing. Good, now I can use my mafia money to pay my real world taxes.
  • Eric -- Quite an insightful, even-handed, deep article.
  • ric
    There is a certain absurd point here in the face of the real money online poker I take part in everyday. And it just gets more popular. I have been a real money skill poker player online for a number of years and the traffic on the sites I frequent have seen a tenfold growth in members. Of course the government made this game of skill illegal in an online environment and it did little to stem the tide ... kind of a lot like making downloading music online illegal did for filesharing. Or what the prohibition did for alcohol. As a wise man once said, this too shall pass. I sometimes really think the people in elected office and big business have convinced themselves that the public has no power and if they decide they dont want to participate in what our elected officials dictate to us ... we wont. I know my poker playing pursuits have seen little impact from these dictates and I also know you will have to pry my cards from my cold dead hands might ring a bell with some people, as I am done being dictated to.
  • Another social gaming model is the one employed by www.PurePlay.com and is based on subscriptions.
  • Foofighter
    This whole process leads people into increasing consumption of games of chance. Zynga and others should be legistlated out of existance. If head shops were found to encourage drug use so too should these apps be seen as doing something similar. Zynga is manipulating a grey area that hopefully will be dissolved soon.

    We saw the impact of middle America on craigslist recently. An enterpising set of politicians should take it upon themselves to illustrate that virtual drug use and virttual crimes are every bit the threat that real world ones are. This whole industry is immoral and should be disbanded.

    As to Ric's comment about having his cards pried from his dead hands, I'm happy to oblige you.
  • Couldn't you make the same argument about basically anything that businesses get people addicted to? What about shopping, fatty food, all other forms of games, not to mention alcohol and cigarettes. If you're trying to legislate against things that are potentially bad for people, where do you draw the line?
  • Industry Guy
    As a practical matter, I don't see FB or the likes of Zynga getting in trouble. There are already companies doing things that are much closer to the line of legality (if not over it). And we're not talking Joe Schmo companies based in Malta, either.

    EA operates Pogo.com -- yes, yes, it's a harmless casual game site... but the fact is (1) there is value going in -- while you can play for free (and that's no different than a game on FB), you can get a subscription to Club Pogo for real cash; besides that, you earn "tokens" with which, in turn, you can... (2) these are games of chance -- with the tokens you've earned, you can enter random "draws" to win... (3) you get something of value -- you can win cold, hard cash in the random draws.

    Pogo.com is also available on Yahoo games.

    On MSN games, you can play blackjack for cash through its partner Worldwinner (if I had thought about it before starting to write, I would have used the MSN Games example because it's actually an even simpler analysis -- but I didn't and I'm too lazy to rewrite this already too-long comment).

    These are all big players that are awfully close to the line of illegal lotteries.

    And so... I can't really see FB or Zynga getting in trouble when EA, Yahoo, and Microsoft are on even shakier legal ground and still operating (and have been for quite some time). Then again, who knows?
  • Those are some great examples. My concern is that Facebook and Zynga and others might seem a lot sexier to prosecute than sites like pogo.com -- and as we know, interpretation of the law is often about politics, not the law.
  • Industry Guy
    I hear ya. But that's kind of my point. They could be prosecuting Electronic Arts (owner of pogo.com), Liberty Media (owner of Worldwinner), or even Yahoo and Microsoft for aiding and abetting (since the "Skill" games portion of Yahoo Games is powered by pogo.com and the "Cash" games portion of MSN Games is powered by worldwinner). And we know how the gov't feels about going after Microsoft.
  • gambler
    I think this is a very interesting topic, but the article falls short. I think it would benefit by less rumors and more skepticism and critical thinking.

    Before you assume that such large reputable companies are just ignoring the law, you should probably consider that these offerings have been carefully constructed with the advice of sophisticated legal counsel to at least be a good faith attempt to comply with the law. To jump to the conclusion that these companies are ignoring the law so others might as well do whatever they want in this space makes the article and commentary worse than useless: its harmful because it may lead people to do things that they shouldn't. Use common sense - gambling, lotteries, etc are large, profitable, highly regulated industries and entering this space without advice of legal counsel is reckless.

    Without competent legal advice, entrepreneurs may modify these models in ways that they think don't matter, but may make a big difference under the law. For example, if they transform a "pogo" like poker game into one where players who win games get 25 dollars cash rather than a chance to win $25 in cash, suddenly users are playing poker for $25 rather than one-hundredth of a penny and this may convert a legal game into an illegal game. And I doubt it would make a difference if it was a valuable prize that was not convertible to cash.

    One of the comments suggests that blackjack is being played for cash in worldwinner cash games on msn games. I looked at the site and saw that is not true. They do not offer blackjack but instead there is a new game called catch 21 that they describe as a mix between blackjack and solitaire. The cash games sometime reference well known terms like blackjack and monopoly, but all these games seem to be significantly modified versions of those games to completely remove the chance element so that it is a game of skill. Of course there are all sorts of laws they need to comply with, but looking at the california penal code 337j I referenced in the other post, I think they probably comply with that because (1) none of these games are poker or pai gow which is specifically included in the definition of controlled games, (2) they are not games of chance which is also included in controlled games, and (3) they are not card games ... approved by the [california] department of justice. I think that last term probably means that all card games are not regulated (e.g., solitaire) but only those that the dept of justice’s gambling division approves for play in casinos and/or cardrooms (i.e., traditional casino games like blackjack, etc.). If you look at the legal disclaimer, they prohibit players for certain states (and prevent play based on ip address location) because they determined their games are not legal in those states. This model may turn out to have problems, but it looks like a lot of thought and legal analysis went into this model.

    Its very different than trying to position classic poker games as games of skill rather than chance and therefore claim it is legal. A gambling law attorney states "I have not been able to find any case law that has ever squarely held poker to be a game of skill free from illegality under applicable state anti-gambling laws." [http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Articles-Notes/online-poker-skill.htm].
  • Alex
    Contrary to the OPINION of the author of the article the answers are absolutely clear:
    "But could these services soon find themselves in trouble for allowing gambling — and get slapped with large fines or other punishment?" - Yes they WILL (see the Second Life gambling ban story).

    "The government has yet to make clear rules defining some forms of gambling in social games, especially when it comes to regulating virtual currencies and games." - There ARE very clear rules regarding the stored value systems, you can read them on: http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/ (former http://www.MSB.gov , MSB stands for Money Services Business).
  • Alex, can you be more specific about what aspects of popular social games you believe relate to MSB?
  • Alex
    'virtual currencies' ARE stored value, P2P transfers of ANYTHING that has monetary value (which only means that people can obtain something valuable, let's say Facebook advertisement for real money OR this 'having no monetary value' 'virtual currency' ) are called money transfer outside the 'geek-speak'.
    BTW, these laws are very different in the jurisdictions other than US, so, there can be NO 'common denominator', believe me.

    As to the games of chance, let's not try to cure the symptoms of the sickness. Gov. should not prohibit people to use their money as they please, PERIOD. If they like to lose their money - so be it. However, the history of computerized casinos and online gambling shows that companies providing ANY games with a cash winnings MUST be regulated. Who will regulate the 'third party developers' on Facebook? I don't care.
    BTW, read about the procedure established for the programmers by the Nevada Gaming Commission some day. It's WAY simpler to become a programmer for Norad or NSA than to be hired by a casino in Nevada as a programmer. And I completely agree with this. These rules are based on multiple incidents.

    Let me reiterate: white is white, black is black and grey is grey, no matter what you call it in your Terms of Service. For instance, people who wrote the proposed FB amendments to TOS regarding the currency business are... not very smart, let's say it this way. They think that if they start pretending and inventing tricks it will work... Nice. Maybe it will be a big discovery for them that outside their office where they seen to had been born and bred all these tricks are well known and disproved ... like 10 times in the last decade alone (see the e-gold story and how it ended).
  • What an amazing article (again).

    I 'm afraid the eminent launch of the facebook payments platform will raise many issues about what constitutes legal - especially since users will be able to give 'credits' to each other. As a developer I tend to think that i will never get in trouble, but this article reminds me to be a lot more careful
  • gambler
    i think zynga has the best strategy for poker of the not blatantly illegal online gaming sites I am aware of. some free poker chips to all to get mass, sell extra chips but don't allow conversion to money out. That said I am skeptical about how much these companies are actually making from games like poker and I think its premature to declare them a success until there is more certainty to the financials. I think a lot of people (even potential competitors) have an interest in floating wildly high numbers for zynga to promote their fundraising, recruit talent and gain credibility for the space. I think there is a lot of money to be made in online games, just not sure about online traditional gambling games with the gambling element removed. :) I think its a brilliant way to attract people to the site and possibly migrate them to premium, proprietary games.

    I think your consensus definition of gambling should be more logically connected to value issue you discuss. Your consensus definition seems to suggest that actual money out is required for something to be gambling. I think this flies in teh face of common sense. I would think most people would recognize that if I win a free nontranferable all expense paid trip to hawaii for playing a poker game that that would not avoid gambling laws simply because I could not resell it to convert it to cash.

    I would say the laws regarding poker are not as ambiguous as some companies in this space might like. Whereas there may be general laws about gambling, some states may make laws that specifically call out important traditional gambling games like poker to make sure it is covered. For example see california penal code 337(j)(e)(1) [http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/337j.html]. As I read this, it prohibits playing for anything of value (so not limited to actual money out like your consensus definition) and it does not seem to require money in (so may cover sites that give valuable non-money prizes but pay for those prizes through ads rather than cash purchases of chips). Why? in part because these games are important to casinos.

    Your statement about poker being allowed under municipal licenses is written in a misleading way. It seems to suggest that its licensed in california because its a game of skill. As you can see from the preamble of ca penal code 337j, it is illegal to carry on such games without required licenses. It comes under the code related to gambling. That said, companies like zynga may avoid liability under this section because they arguably do not give anything of value. But if there is a black market in their chips and they sell these chips for cash directly to their customers, its also arguable that the chips won (not purchased) also have value.

    The attorney generals need to manage resources. I think the craigslist prosecution seemed weak, but I think compared to the other advertisers of such services, they probably were one of the most successful (high volume) and egregious (where posters blatantly advertised what was illegal prostitution) such that they were not a bad company to make an example. Same with online gaming. Attorney generals are probably not going to waste their time on a company that is unsuccessful or is very careful not to cross the line, but if they start to be successful and start making impacting the revenues of local cardrooms for example, they may get prosecuted. High profile cases are how AGs get the most bang for the buck because its an example everyone pays attention to so they can effect public behavior.
  • gambler
    You suggest that at the other end of the value continuum there probably is a point in which the value is negligible under the relevant laws. I agree with that. But I think the lower the value, the less interest many people have in playing these traditional gambling games.

    I think pogo is an example of a site that the value of the tokens played for are extemely low and the configuration of the payouts are really like the traditional advertising sweepstakes that have been around for years. I have not actually registered for the site, so may be wrong on the details, but think the general point is right.

    I think you are awarded chances to win prizes based on playing time and/or winning a game. You can estimate the value those chances based on the expected payout. For example, there is a $50 drawing each day. If you assume 5000 tickets are entered into the drawing that day, that means each ticket has an expected value of $50.00/5000 = 1 penny when given to the user before the drawing. Each ticket is given for 100 tokens, which are awarded during game play (not sure if based on winning, playing time, or both) but that would suggest each token is worth one-hundredth of a penny when awarded to the user. My guess is that many more than 5000 tickets are entered each day so that the value is much lower. The weekly and monthly prize probably translate into roughly the same expected value since the prize value and the period for entries roughly scales 7 and 30 times bigger than the daily prize. If the token is used to by a ticket that enters someone into the daily, weekly and monthly drawing, that would suggest a token is worth 3-hundredths of a penny and a ticket is worth 3 cents.

    Same with the instant spinner jackpots for winning a game. There are instant win jackpots of $5 to $25 and the value of each spin won can be calculated by considering the odds of winning. If pogo configures the jackpot to pay out one each $5, $10, and $25 ($40 total) on average every 4000 "spins", then the value of a spin won in a game is 1 penny. The chance of winning may be much lower and therefore the value of a spin may be even lower.

    Even the progressive prize of $4999 sounds large but it starts at $50 and only goes up $90 per day (0.01 every 10 seconds) until someone wins and then restarts at $50 so the typical payout is probably much smaller. The value of a spin here is probably not much different than the others prizes.

    Finally, if you look at the link on prizes at the bottom of the pogo page, you will see there are ways to enter spin jackpots and get tickets for drawings without playing the games. For example, you can send handwritten postcards in to get free tickets (10 per postcard). Given that you can get chances to win without playing (similar to the no purchase necessary that is common for advertising sweepstakes) it becomes hard to argue that the tickets that one earns by game play is worth much more than tickets one can get by spending 2.6 cents each (26 cent postcard for 10 tickets). I doubt many people take them up on this, but it helps the negligible value argument and I suspect is required to comply with sweepstakes laws.
  • gambler
    As I understand it you win tokens for poker play in pogo. One argument is the analysis above that the token is worth virtually nothing. But I think you can take it one step further: A token can't be exchanged for cash (I believe the terms state no monetary value) and by itself (without another 99 tokens) cannot be exchanged for anything. So its reasonable to conclude that you get nothing of value for winning a token in a poker game. You can argue that any ticket value attributable to the token comes from the aggregation of 100 of them to get a ticket not the poker play. But since you can get as many tickets as you want for free using the alternative method of sending handwritten postcards for each set of 10 tickets (easy but less fun) there is no value attributable to being able to exchange the tokens for tickets.
  • Andreas
    Interesting article, albeit with some incorrect deductions. The UIGEA as quoted, has provisions that allows for advertisers and sponsors to make money on the game. It says very specifically that the person (player) must deposit his own money or other financial instruments, other than his/her own time and effort. Hence, the deduction "Clearly, the first requirement of gambling — that money goes into the system — is being met." is incorrect.

    There are other targets out there for the legal forces. Sites like Pureplay and Spadeclub have a considerably higher risk exposure due to that they take credit cards and allow people to win money.
  • Andreas
    Here are the exceptions i mentioned:
    (1 ) BET OR WAGER.
    The term 'bet or wager'—
    (A) means the staking or risking by any person of something of value upon the outcome of a contest of others, a sporting event, or a game subject to chance, upon an agreement or understanding that the person or another person will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome;
    (B) includes the purchase of a chance or opportunity to win a lottery or other prize (which opportunity to win is predominantly subject to chance);
    (C) includes any scheme of a type described in section 3702 of title 28;
    (D) includes any instructions or information pertaining to the establishment or movement of funds by the bettor or customer in, to, or from an account with the business of betting or wagering; and
    (E) does not include-
    *SNIP*
    (viii) participation in any game or contest in which participants do not stake or risk anything of value other than
    (I) personal efforts of the participants in playing the game or contest or obtaining access to the Internet; or
    -----
    If the points/tickets earned by the user has no intrinsic value and the players has obtained them by just spending time (i.e. no money, but rather just filled out CPA offers), then how would it be deemed gambling?
    The "win something of value" is more vague. So the sweepstakes type of sites that offers a cash prize, but no deposits (like Zynga does via paypal) are more legal than Zynga et. all.
    My belief after researching this extensively, is just that:
    You can offer a cash prize just fine, but never, not even if you just offer virtual gifts, take cash from the users. That is staking and a virtual gift can be "something of value".
  • John Doe
    To cut to the point. If you want to buy chips go to www.anychips.net . It's not gambling so feel free to buy.
  • gambler
    Any entrepreneur probably should talk to an attorney about their business plan before starting any business, but I think thats especially true if you get involved in the gaming space and take OR give money or something of value in the games, particularly if it involves traditional gambling games like poker, blackjack, slot machines, etc. Make sure you comply with gambling, lottery and related laws. And as we see from the recent seizure of $40M from pokerstars and full tilt apparently using money laundering laws, the UIGEA is not the only law you need to concern yourselves with.

    I actually think that giving money is probably more of a problem than taking money. If you only take money (but don't give anything of value), then I would think it can be thought of as a subscription or pay to play a game like you would in an arcade game. But if you give prizes based on winning these games, common sense says that someone must be directly or indirectly funding the wagers, bets or chances to win. If advertisers give vouchers that are used as prizes in poker games, they are in essence breathing value into the "free" poker chips and they are not doing this out of charity -- one way or the other the player must be contributing something besides their "personal efforts of the participants in playing the game or contest or obtaining access to the Internet" (as cited by from the UIGEA by Andreas), whether that be responding to marketing surveys, viewing served ads, click-throughs, etc. The difference between the site operator acting as a middleman to arrange this "funding" rather than receiving the money from the player directly may be thought of as nothing more than a shell game... I could imagine that players might be persuaded by the chances for seemingly large prizes (the chances probably having values much less than they seem - see pogo discussion above) to do things they might not otherwise do to get their "free" chips. And when prizes are at stake in many of the games, there is an opportunity for cheating especially in the online environment (eg dishonest site operators, collaboration between players). In the end players may indeed be swindled to do things they might not otherwise do by illusory prizes from free poker sites even though they don't put money in. I think that is the idea why the states regulate advertisement sweepstakes.
  • The government has no business in regulating virtual cash. If you don't want to play, then don't. Pretty simple isn't it. We don't need the Imperial Federal Government sticking its nose in areas it doesn't belong. We don't need the nanny state telling us we can't play poker online for fake dollars. I know, have Zynga put some Pequot Indians on their board of directors and the "Gambling" problem will be solved.
  • Jessie
    I don't get why, for example Zynga discourages buying from 3rd party sellers however you can buy poker chips from them. I'm beginning to think that they want to earn the money just for themselves. Check out this article, it shows how 3rd party virtual currency selling helps in a way.
    http://www.procontentsite.com/articles/index.ph...
  • dph
    I'm interested to know whether there is any link to Zynga's "F" BBB rating and the discussion here around their dubious approach to virtual currency...
  • Father Jones
    Second Life 2009: too many people are still losing too much money on Zyngo. And it is for sure a gambling game first class. Even with the blue and green jokers, it is definitly a game of chance, like bingo is considered one. Talking about too much money, I mean like people playing for 1000 USD in one hour. Did you guys ever searched for high roller places with Zyngo? You can play machines there for 5000 (17 USD)up to 50000 Linden Dollars (175 USD) a game, with pots to win up to 1 million Linden Dollars (3500 USD). And that is what the creator of the game and the owners of those places call an innocent game of skill for fun? I wonder when someone will have the guts to bring this to the right people, the press, the financial company’s Linden Lab is depending on, and also of course the US government,… We are not only talking about Zyngo in this matter. There are lots of ‘zyngo-clones’ produced lately by other programmers that are made for the very same purpose: making huge money, not just the money you need to buy you a pair of shoes, a piece of land and a house to live in your virtual world. Millions of dollars are running around in this gamblingbusiness on Second Life. Anyone doubting my words: just take a look yourself inworld.
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