Business

We’d like your opinions on immigration reform

The Knight Foundation is funding a important media experiment on immigration reform and we’d love your input on the issue.

As you may know, immigration reform, especially for high-skilled workers, is one of the technology industry’s top political goals.

However, a rather angry national dialog on the issue is paralyzing Congress’s ability to find a compromise. So, Knight is seeing whether the media can bring some level-headed opinions to the debate by supporting a process known as “deliberative polling.”

Deliberative polling was developed by Stanford’s James Fishkin to see what the American people would think if they were educated on a topic. It takes a representative sample of the population, gives them incentives to become educated on a topic, and then records how information changes their opinion.

Deliberative polls are a great indication of how the public might think about a law after it’s enacted (and they’ve had time to learn about the effects). Deliberative polls are also important for understanding which beliefs are a product of ignorance.

But, to date, the media hasn’t really used deliberative polls in their reporting, which we hope to change.

To ensure that the participants we’ve already selected in the deliberative poll are getting an exhaustive and fair list of all the arguments for and against immigration reform, it’s important we collect lots of opinions.

This is where you come in: Add your thoughts on immigration to the public document here. It’ll inform the participants as they learn about the issue.

The recipient of the Knight Foundation grant, Reframe.it, has collected an extensive list of arguments. We’d love for you to add your own arguments, or thoughts on the existing ones.

We can’t wait to hear from you. Soon enough, we’ll have the results of Knight’s and Reframe.it’s experiment.


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88 comments
Hard Time
Hard Time

Now more illegals gonna come to america cuz in their mind they think that gonna get a green card too and the funny sad part is they might I had to wait 8year to get mine legal papers legally back in brazil I should of crossed the border Illegally I would had got my papers faster ,now tell me how is that fair when there's thousands of people over seas legally waiting to come and someone who cut in front of the line get to get their first ???

Hard Time
Hard Time

I regret voting for obama his the worse thing that ever happend to this country poll supposedly shaw that the majority of Americans are in favor of amnesty and that's not true

Lorraine Thomas
Lorraine Thomas

Why wait 14 years to become a permanent resident when someone can just hop the border. I think the government should spend some time looking at the backlog of immigrants that have been waiting 12+ years for a permanent resident visa.  Mostly sibling sponsorship (F4 category); most siblings seeking residence in the US, are in their prime years of life and could get a US education, a high-skilled job, pay taxes as well as health insurance, and keep the money earned in the US.  You'd think the government would want that.

Check out the Visa Bulletin to see the latest priority dates:

http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/law-and-policy/bulletin/2014/visa-bulletin-for-august-2014.html

Tal Farlow
Tal Farlow

Get a damn dictionary and look up the word illegal! now enforce our laws and our borders! Our so called leaders are paid to look after AMERICANS not every law breaker that jumps the border. Who do people think pays the bills around here!

Loreen Keeth
Loreen Keeth

We have laws for immigration, just enforce them.  People coming illegally are breaking the law. 

Robert Smith
Robert Smith

United States needs Immigration reform and i strongly support Obama's Administrations Immigration Reform which has been passed in a bipartisan way like a year ago. Americans need to remember that United States of America is made by, for by and it is for Immigrants. It's in our blood and system and we should not forget this. USA has unbelievable talent and strong power because of Immigrants and that's how we stand on top of every single country of this world. Doctors, Scientist, Engineers, IT sector and many more you will find them immigrants. Immigration reform will help this country a lot and it will definitely boost our economy, performance and power in following ways. 


1) People will come out from shadow and apply for a higher education which will bring more talent into our society and off course which is good for the nation as they will contribute towards growth of the country. 


2) Govt. will be able collect maximum amount of taxes from every single person as they will be registered into IRS as like any other individual.    


3) Circulation of USD within the country will be doubled as immigrants will invest money in USA itself rather than sending money to their home country. Majority of them sends money back to home country as they have a threat for deportation. Nobody will invest money where they don't know how long they will be able to stay in this country. They will invest more in USA if they will become legal which is good for the economy. Remember that majority of business owners are immigrants. 


4) GDP of this country will get increase as economy will boost. More hands means more strength and more power. 


5) USA is well known for Humanitarian facts where constitution doesn't differentiate people on basis of race, religion or immigrants. People will feel safe, secured and united since it is not advisable and healthy practice to separate the families. Think about a child who is a US citizen but got separated from mom or dad because they doesn't have a document to live in this country. It is not fair for the entire family. 


Finally all i want to say....If we focus on big companies like Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, IBM and many more including NASA, you will see existence of Immigrants where they contribute a lot in every aspect. USA is all about immigrants and we need to keep doing it to make this country better.  

Terri Marsh
Terri Marsh

LISTED BELOW are several of the arguments that have been used by misguided people to try and justify illegal immigration. Next to each is the reason why that argument has no merit.


1) They are an economic necessity - Not true. The idea that a bunch of desperately poor, uneducated, unskilled, non-English speaking foreigners are an economic necessity is ludicrous. In fact, when you compare cost vs. benefit, it is obvious that they are not only NOT a necessity, they are not even an asset. Rather, they are a liability and a huge one at that.

2) They do work Americans won’t do - Not true. They do work Americans won’t do for $7 an hour (especially if Americans can collect welfare and unemployment instead). Of course, if you got rid of the illegals, the jobs wouldn’t pay $7 an hour. The people who wanted the work done would have to pay a wage that was attractive enough to get Americans to do the work. And it might even be enough to get Americans off the unemployment and welfare dole and back into the taxpaying workforce!

3) We benefit from all that “cheap” labor - This is nonsense. The only people who benefit from the cheap labor are the unscrupulous people who hire illegal immigrants. Taxpayers are left holding the bag. Ultimately, it is they who must pay to support all the Americans who have been put out of work by illegals and must also provide billions of dollars in services and benefits to the illegals themselves.

4) They are just trying to make better lives - Aren’t we all? The difference is that most of us understand that we DO NOT have a right to acquire by illegal means those things that we find difficult to acquire by legal means. And we certainly don’t have the right to do it in a foreign country. 

5) It is impossible to round up and deport the illegals - We don’t have to. All we have to do is remove the incentives that brought them here in the first place. No jobs. No housing. No taxpayer financed services or benefits (including education). Once we remove the incentives that brought them here, they will leave on their own. 

6) Immigration control is racist / xenophobic - This is just another play of the race card by people who have no other cards to play. Immigration control is the world-wide status quo. There is nothing racist about it. Furthermore, the USA welcomes LEGAL immigrants of all races and ethnicities from all over the world who have gone through the legal immigration process. This is not just a bad argument, it is an attempt to create racial hatred and division. 

7) We are a nation of immigrants - This is the “BIG LIE”. The vast majority of Americans are native-born. I am not an immigrant. Nor were my parents. Nor were my grandparents. We are a nation that has, historically, allowed and even encouraged LEGAL immigration. And we continue to do so. The issue at hand is illegal immigration, which has nothing to do with legal immigration. 

8) They are people. We must treat them humanely - Yes & yes. But lets not pretend like they are victims who were dragged here kicking and screaming against their will. Nothing could be further from the truth. They came of their own free will and for their own benefit and they broke the law to do it. PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE REWARDED FOR BREAKING LAWS AND COMMITTING CRIMES. SENDING THEM HOME IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. There is nothing “draconian” or “mean-spirited” about it. 

9) It is wrong to break up families- Yes. Unfortunately, families are often broken up by criminal activity. If you don’t believe it, just drop by any prison or jail on visiting day. We can’t keep families together if some family members choose to participate in criminal activity.

10) They work & contribute to our society - So do I. And if I break the law and commit crimes, I can expect to pay a penalty of some kind. Anything from a small fine to the death penalty. I do not receive a reward. WHY SHOULD WE TREAT FOREIGN CRIMINALS BETTER THAN OUR OWN CITIZENS?

mike davis
mike davis

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.
 
Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes. 
 
It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about" political correctness" that we don't have the will to do anything about it.
 
CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?
 
Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage. 
 
Consumers don't want expensive  produce. 
 
Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.
 
But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a  myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor." 
 
Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an " earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free. 
 
He qualifies for  Section 8 housing  and  subsidized rent .
 
He qualifies for  food stamps..
 
He qualifies for  free (no deductible), noco-pay) health care.
 
His  children get free breakfasts and lunches  at school.
 
He  requires bilingual teachers and books.
 
He  qualifies for relief from high energy bills.

If  they are or become, aged, blind or disabled , they  qualify for SSI.
Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for  Medicare . All of this is at  (our) taxpayer's expense . 
He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.
 
Taxpayers provide  Spanish  language signs, bulletins and printed material.
 
He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.
 
Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills AND his. 
 
The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up. 
 
Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT!  Wake up people!

Kevin Rhee
Kevin Rhee

The United States of America desperately needs an immigration reform much like the one S.744 or HR.15 proposes. I say this as someone who's been patiently waiting for his green card for the past 9 years (approved 5 years ago), disappointed that many Americans would blame people like me for having a hard time assimilating into their society rather than helping to fix the immigration system--let alone comforting our fellow late-arrivals of the tragedy--for the better. Now, hear me out as I explain why I believe this. And bear in mind that the following argument does not represent all that I have in mind (I'd rather not write an essay you may not want to read), and I'll do my best to reply to the comments I may receive henceforth.


Let's begin by addressing the issue over economy--I'd like to be able to put a loaf of bread on my dining table for my family as much as you'd want to for your own. While the anti-immigration folks argue that immigrants take away jobs and lower the wages (which is true as much as they spotlight it so much), they blatantly ignore the fact that immigrants also demand goods and services (they are people, too, after all) and thereby create jobs at the same time. Think about it: what has happened over the last 60 years with the influx of baby-boomers, women and immigrants into the US work force by tens of millions? By your logic claiming there's only so many jobs in the world, we'd have something like a 50% unemployment rate (or what, 20% employment rate?) right now. And we know that's not the case. Then, you'd be tempted to use supply-and-demand curve to argue against lowering wages due to the increased competition over jobs. But not every one of us does the same job--some of us are doctors, lawyers and engineers, while others are teachers, cooks, and janitors. The majority of Americans are mid-skilled while immigrants are polarized in what they have to offer, which minimizes labor competition and actually frees up the labor to increase productivity. Due to the innovation entrepreneurial countless immigrants (and of course, native-born Americans) bring to the market (co-founding Google, Yahoo, Intel etc.), we are surely better off than we were hundred years ago in innumerable ways.


Dear fellow fiscal conservatives: is your issue with the welfare state (while asserting that you are somehow all for immigration)? Then the answer is simple: if you're so against the welfare programs, end it. Problem solved. Are you a US citizen? If you are, you have the right to vote, so use it to end this country's ill welfare programs (if you're so adamant about it rather than fixing, improving or replacing it it). As a libertarian, I'm not fond of such programs as yourself. But I just can't have myself blaming the people who are simply trying to take what is "legally" permitted, rather than criticizing the system that which allows it and its abuse. The people aren't the problem--we are selfish in nature. The system is the problem. 


If you're somehow still insistent on the deportation-only policy, I will oppose because I'd rather not spend close to $1 trillion dollars booting these people out in this economy, while solely focusing on the present negatives and ignoring the positive outcome we can bring about from dealing with this problem. Can we just be more realistic and practical about the issues we face rather than holding onto the failed enforcement-only ideologies (all presidents since Reagan: Bush Sr., Clinton, Bush Jr., and Obama, have failed building the fence. Why?)? The CBO says S.744 will reduce the federal deficit/debt by approx. $1 trillion over the 20 years following its enactment due to the new tax and other forms of monetary contribution by the newly-would-be "legalized" immigrants. This is in part because these people will be ineligible for means-tested federal welfare programs for 10 years, including Medicaid and Food Stamp Program. Again, if you're so concerned about the state programs and their budget, you should advocate for your state to legislate against welfare programs, not blame immigrants for your woes (immigration is a federal issue, not the individual's states, so this should be dealt at that level). If the government, with all its manpower and resources, misappropriates the budget for those who are otherwise ineligible for the program, it's arguably more so that the former is at fault than the latter.


Furthermore, if you think the immigrants are always left-leaning and will oppose your philosophy, remember that, as you rightly argue, they come from places that are less free, leaving because they think they can do better in the land of freedom and not because they somehow carry the "unholy" mission to turn it into another socialist haven. Rather than demonizing them and forcing their ears shut, we must persuade them in open arms so they'll listen to us before the left (with whom I agree on many social issues and disagree on fiscal & economic policies, on which I'm willing to compromise) holds onto them by their neck.

Rick Leroue
Rick Leroue

If people come to this Country Legal way I have no problem. It's all the ones that cheat the system. The ones that think we owe them a life. We don't. When real Americans can't find work, or the one that hold down 2 or more jobs just to feed their family. You want free loaders to come in. NO WAY.  AS far as I am concerned I start a Country wide deporting . I go door to door. If your not legal your gone.  God knows what has sneaked into the Country.

george alloy
george alloy

As much as people would like to deny it, illeagal immigration does supress wages and take resources be it medical, education or welfare from citizens. Having said this some reform is needed and doing it piece meal is going to be more efficient than try to make a big comprehensive policy that nobody will be able to understand, like the ACA. I agree that first the border should be secured and not with a fence either we need troops on the border with the athority to either turn people back or detain for deportation, detainees do not get a hearing, they are just sent back.

Second the visa process needs to be streamlined. When I was in the military I knew several people who married overseas that had to wait years for a visa for their spouse and there is no way this is even remotely fair. The law should stipulate that anyone entering on a work visa will be paid at the same starting salary for any citizen holding the same position, just to keep it fair and make compaies stay honest.

 Everyone entering on a Visa other than tourist, will be issued an ID with RFID tag and a mandatory contact person similar to a parole officer where regular checkins are required. I know this won't stop everyone from overstaying a visa but it will make it easier to track them as well as enable people who overstay or participate in illeagal activities to be on a watch list that can get them picked up for deportation on a traffic stop or enven by an employer using everify.

 As for a path to citizenship, leave the country and return leagally, entering illeagally has shown that you don't care about our laws, if you leave and apply we can over look that once and if you can show that you can be a productive member of our country we let you come back even givingg you a higher priority but it should be done within the law.

 Anyone caught attempting to enter the U.S. illeagally should have biometric data taken and not be allowed toenter the U.S. on any visa program ever. 

As for those applying for refugee status, we should take them in, but we should freeze and sieze all assests from their home country as well as those of their home countries politicians that are in the U.S. to aid in assisting these refugees. This might influence other countries to treat their people better.

 Troops on the border will also greatly decrease a lot of the drug trafficing that is causing a lot of the problems in the home countries of these people.

Frank Fletcher
Frank Fletcher

Lets get to the Point Every Video I see has These Illegals The Kids and Teenagers Gang Members Wearing New Cloths and High Dollar Shoes and they are all Well Feed so This is Where Obama's Stories Fall Apart. This is About All 11 Million Illegals That Are Sitting Around The Stores in Manassas ,Woodbridge Virginia, Silver Spring, Gaithersburg, Maryland. Drinking and Defecating Around the Stores and Taking Jobs That People in America Need as a Second Income to Put Food and Pay Their Rent. This is Cutting Wages by These Illegals Getting Cash Payments Paying No Taxes and Sending Money Back to Other Illegals to Travel to Our Country Illegally. If The News Organization's Would Report The Honest News about How Americans are Really Feed Up with all The Lies That Obama and Congress and Feeding Us when we see it For Our Selves in our Faces Every Day we Know the Truth we Have to Live The Truth not Obama and his Privileged Kids or Congress Men and Women Bull S**t Stories. This is a War on The America People if We as a United People Do Not Stand Up Together and March On Washington DC on September 1,2014 Take Back America Day. We All Loose America as it Stands Today Your Kids and Grandkids Will Pay The Price as America is Turned in to a Third World Gang Infested Country. All The Illegals are Marching in Washington DC Demanding their Rights and Obama and Congress are Seeing Them Demanding Rights That They Do Not Have They are Here Illegally They are Collecting Welfare, Paying No Tax's and Getting Food Stamps all at Our Expense. DHS, and The Department of Immigration are Doing Nothing at Obama's Direction This is Against The Law! Enough is Enough Take This to Obama's Front Door Show him We The American People Will not Put Up With This Any More We Demand Action Now Depot All Illegals Close our Borders And Star Enforcing Our Laws!!! I have Photos of These Illegals in My County and in Maryland all the Biased Media has to do is Come to Manassas and I can Take Them on a True Stop Reporting Lies and do Your Jobs and Report Both Sides of The Story.

International Student
International Student

Do you believe that person entered in United States Illegally need to give legal status and person who entered in United States legally and maintained legal states for many years to give them first legal status?

Why people who entered in United States Illegally don't have to go back in their country or why they do not have to wait in the queue?

I entered United States legally 10 years before for study and as on today I have maintained my legal status in United States as International Student. If I have to stay permanently in United States it will take for me 10 to 15 years to receive green card in my hand. May be more than that lengthy procedure.

Whereas, my neighbor came United States 10 years before illegally during same time I came, without any education they get first United States legal status without spending any money for study in United States and without paying any taxes.

What do you believe the right things?

Ruth Bronstein
Ruth Bronstein

I believe that there should be some sort of amnesty, though that's a rather loaded word and it might have to be called something else. But before that happens...for it to be accepted by the great majority of the American public...the border must be sealed just as airtight as possible. (And no, none of that "virtual fence" nonsense counts.) In order to accept amnesty for those illegals who are already here, we will have to KNOW (beyond any doubt) that in ten more years there won't be another 14 or 15 million illegals squawking about "immigration reform" yet again.

And so far, it seems that the President is not willing to do that.

International Student
International Student

3 Master's most demanding degree and highly skilled expertise International student doesn't have job in United States and person coming from India with Bachelor degree doesn't have specific degree in the expertise skill area and they have job on H1-B visa.

Samuel Hain
Samuel Hain

Since when does a nation of 1/3 billion, with 55 million unemployed need MORE immigrants??

Lothar Baier
Lothar Baier

I am a MSEE who spend over 25 years designing cellular infrastructure products first before working on military electronics , now i am working as a research engineer for a university in texas !

The statement that we need more foreign high tech workers because companies cannot find workers is downright a lie , the correct statement should be " we cannot find americans who want to work for lower salaries " !


The IEEE for example reported the unemployment rate for software engineers in 2013 to be 7.3% , unemployment for Electrical Engineers stood at 6.5%  (up from 3.4% in 2012) , with those numbers it seems hard to believe that the likes of gates and zuckerberg cannot find americans to do the job especially since the majority of unemployed engineers are Sr. Level with substantial expertise in their field !


But then you look at the salary numbers and it all makes sense , a Sr EE for example makes roughly $65-85K while the average salary of a H1B is about 35-55K !!!! thats a big difference especially for big players who hire hundrets of engineers !


I have seen this game all too many times ,  young Engineer gets hired on H1B, the older guys get assigned to mentor the young ones teaching them all they know ,  then when they are trained the older guys get either laid off or get "encouraged" to leave by getting re assigned to do low level jobs or by getting bad reviews !


Years ago i was working for a company who hired a young guy from india on H1B ,  one day we talked about salaries and he seemed to be shocked when he learned that i made 75K a year while he was making only 45K with the same level of education and experience , later on i got called into my managers office and got chewed out for telling the guy how much i made , he obviously was not happy that day at all ,  6 month later i got a really bad review from my manager and as a result decided to move on !


International Student
International Student

Please STOP bringing people from India and China on H1-B visa. They enter United States on fake resume with fake educational and experience certificates. These people are not skilled and low efficiency people. Please hire on H1-B only educated students from United States school. There are 1000's of students who are highly skilled, who came United States to study Master’s program and really focused on study and build strong skill expertise they do not have job right now. United States company only hires Green Card holder and U.S. Citizen for all full-time opportunities and all United States consulting job taken by body staffing company TCS (Tata Consultancy Services), Cognizant, Wipro, Infosys, Tech Mahindra, Cap Gemini, IGATE. These all company brings people from India and China on 1/4th rate or giving Indian/Chinese salary in their country and on per diem on US. In a nutshell, these company don’t hire United States educated experienced highly skilled people.


STOP giving United States work to TCS (Tata Consultancy Services), Cognizant, Wipro, Infosys, Tech Mahindra, Cap Gemini, IGATE. Hire who have attended and graduated from Master’s program in United States school.


This is true example: Master in Computer Science, Master in Computer Engineering, and Master in Management Information Systems student, who have attended and graduated from United School with 4 out 4 GPA and they possess technology highly demanding skill expertise 1000’s of students don’t have job and people coming from India and China with Bachelor of Commerce, Bachelor in Biology, Bachelor in Arts degree, Bachelor in Computer Science or Bachelor in Computer Engineering has job. Because they come from India via this outsourcing company or with fake experience certificate by paying money (bribery) to body shopping recruiting company and they are working on United States market on IT job.


To bring this reality to the public get the record from every school, how many International Student graduated from their school and how many have real IT job and make this data open to the public.


STOP abusing H1-B visa by bringing people from India and China. Hire only International students under H1-B visa category.

Dan Tucker
Dan Tucker

We already allow 1 million immigrants annually and with the Gates & Clinton unlimited H1B & H2B Visas the only intent is to degrade the value of Labor. There are 450,000 unemployed not counted, 60,000 graduates of science and Math programs that can't find work... yet they need cheap foreign labor to drive down the value. The only reform we need is enforcement and compliance. Something we've been missing for 30 years. There are now more people collecting welfare than gainfully employed with a full time job. Spare me the pitty for other nations while our own, and educated workers starve.

Michael Otey
Michael Otey

The house had a better method for this, divide it up and go through it item by item. Improve not just throw away what we have and give a blank check to everyone... The ring of 8, was another obamacare document, no one was going to read it and we all suffer later..

Bob Schmidt
Bob Schmidt

1) Focus on terrorists, murderers, DUI, absentee datds, welfare parasites...the undesireables.  No immigrant, legal or illegal should be allowed to even apply for welfare. 
2) God bless those who work, take care of their family. Work should be valued regardless of whether it is skilled or unskilled.  It is a big mistake to allow the government to tell private employers whom they can and cannot hire (everify),  Anyone who thinks that the government will use it the way it was intended doesn't understand the concept of dialectical action to use the other side's tool against them.

3) Immigration is a privilege; not a right.  Everyone has the right to life..but not to live it in the USA.  Therefore, when a non-citizen is deported there is no grounds to go to court and say a "right" has been violated because that "right" never existed.  The privilege should be geneerously extended to those who work and don't cause trouble; that is all.

4) The biggest mistake of most plans (both pro and anti) is that they create a big government solution.  There is no need for a big government response on the border.  There is no need for an allegedly comprehensive law.  These massive laws are pro-immigration attorney and immigration consultant.  They are not pro-immigrant; nor pro-taxpayer or pro-America.

5) To implement #4's small government solution implement #1.  

-Immigrant has burden to prove he should be allowed in.  It is not on the government's burden to prove anything.  

-Keep biometric database including facial recognition, etc. Aggressively use it to find all current immigrants (legal and illegal) in jail, prison, court system, etc.  Use it aggressively at the aiport, border, etc.  Historically, most illegals who cross the border rent an ID and just walk accross, returning the rented IDs to the owner on the other side.  Most do not sneak thru the desert or swim the river.  Burden of proof on the immigrant can make the entry of good immigrants quite orderly and require small money and manpower.  

6) I know many immigrants (legal and illegal, including my formerly illegal wife) who are told by the bureaucrat that their "papers are lost or at the bottom of the stack.  They suggest using an immigration consultant or lawyer and hand the immigrant a sheet of paper with 10 or 12 names on it..and the languages, etc they speak.  It just happens that these immigration consultants and lawyers are business partners of the bureaucrats.  The current system and the people in it is extremely corrupt.  The laws should make the process simple and transparent with as little opportunity for corruption as possible.


All of this could be expanded.    But you get the idea.  Big government is not the solution.  It is the problem.

Melody Combs
Melody Combs

Enforce all current laws on the books, there is no need for reform or for the US to "import" high tech workers.  The corporations only want to fill this so called High Tech jobs with foreign workers so they can undercut wages for American workers that used to have those jobs.  If we won't enforce the laws already on the books, new laws are worthless as well.

Richard Starr
Richard Starr

First off, it's not "reform".  Reform implies it will make things better, this bill won't.

First we need to fully enforce the laws on the books, restore the penalties that were in the Reagan era bill, and

then take a hard look at changes that could be made that would benefit the nation, not special interest groups.

There are those that benefit from illegal aliens, and those that pay for it.

Big Business loves it for the surplus of labor that lowered wages and shifted health care costs onto the public.

Big Government Union loves it because it provides them "customers" and eventually voters to ensure their existence.

Race based politicians love it because it will increase their base of power.


Those of us that foot the bill ... Not so much.


I'd like to at least use the standard that Mexico uses to allow people in.

Simply put, they require that anyone immigrating be a net + to their society.  That they earn a decent living, pay taxes, and have health care without using public services.


If you are an employer here and are willing to offer a living wage + health care and are unable to find a citizen to do the work,then you should be allowed to import one and pay that living wage + health care.  This way, neither the immigrant nor the public are being exploited.


As to the H1B workers and the like, there is too much fraud and abuse in the system.

It is not being used to get needed talent so much as it is being used to depress wages in the tech industry much as the agreements not to poach workers that existed between Apple and other companies.  This way, management did not have to worry about paying their people bonuses/raises/perks to stay and could keep it for themselves.


There are plenty of students graduating with STEM degrees who with a minimum of training, and the payment of a fair wage, could fill these jobs.  There are also veteran workers who have left the field for greener pastures who would come back if allowed to do so.  The shortage is pretty much a lie.



Ver Acity
Ver Acity

UK Mass Immigration case study – July, 2014.

Mass immigration will damage the living standards of everyone in the country as minor economic benefits are outweighed by the social pressures of a relentlessly rising population, one of Britain’s most eminent Left-wing economists declared yesterday.

Professor Robert Rowthorn, Emeritus Professor of Economics at Cambridge University and a longstanding adviser to Whitehall departments, said the economic advantages of immigration are ‘unlikely to be very large’.

But the downside – from building on the green belt (building free areas)to the overcrowding of cities – means that the consequences of large-scale immigration ‘are mostly negative for the existing population of the UK and their descendants’.

The findings are a major blow to claims that immigration has and will continue to bring major economic benefits. Over the past decade, widely-publicized studies by academics and liberal think tanks have repeatedly said that immigration will make us better off.

Among those reported by the BBC have been claims by the Labor-leaning Institute for Public Policy Research that immigrants are paying a disproportionate share of the nation’s taxes, and that they bring economic benefits because they do jobs that Britons will not take.

However, since Tony Blair introduced an effectively open-door immigration policy after the 1997 election the Daily Mail has been reporting on the impact of migration on population; on the social make-up of cities; on unemployment, and declining wages for low-skilled workers; and on the pressure it has brought on housing and services.

 All have contributed to a growing unease about immigration among voters that has led all political parties to pay lip service to curbs on immigration and state benefits for migrants.

Professor Rowthorn, a former consultant to the International Monetary Fund and the UN Trade and Development Commission, said in his report that there may be no economic gains from immigration at all.

If there are, they will be outweighed by extra costs imposed by the strain on housing, land, schools, hospitals, water supplies and transport. ‘Such losses would ultimately outweigh the small gain in average wages apparently resulting from mass immigration.’

Professor Rowthorn said the major economic benefit that immigration can provide is increasing the number of younger people in the population, so that there are more working-age people to support the growing numbers of the elderly who rely on pensions and need more health and social care.

But he found that the difference to the ‘dependency ratio’ made by mass immigration is tiny compared to the major increases in population needed to sustain it.

‘If many of the migrants fail to get jobs, or if they end up in low skill jobs or displace native workers, large-scale immigration will have a negative impact on GDP per capita and on government finances,’ he added.

‘The impact could be positive or negative but either way it is unlikely to be very large. The only thing that is certain is that immigration on the present scale, if it continues, will lead to much faster population growth and a much larger total GDP than would otherwise be the case, with consequent pressure on infrastructure and the environment.’

Professor Rowthorn, 74, is a former Marxist and remains a significant figure in Left-wing economics.


The US must learn from this, reverse its course and deport all illegals now.

Robert Dennis
Robert Dennis

People that came illegally and left their children in their home country, should be sent back home. And not get any benefits from the state or federal programs. They broke the law, their home countries don't give persons in their country illegally anything , except jail time and then deport. Lets make it equal for all, jail time and then deport the whole family. Let them apply for entry, just like the other countries. You need a trade (trade that they need) money to support yourself. No government handouts, need to speak their language of that country. And fine every person that hires an person her illegally 50K dollars and revoke their  lic. of doing that trade for 5 years. My great Grand parents came to this country legally in the early 1900s, they learned  to speak English, all my uncles served in WW2, cousins and my brother and I served during Vietnam. So folks don't let our government let them stay, the late Paul Harvey said " people that run away from their country, will they run some where, if we need  to fight".

Juan Rios
Juan Rios

Why bother with this "deliberative poll"?

You're just going to have a bunch of loudmouth right wing retirees spewing their hate.

No need for opinions; just look at South Carolina's farm labor shortage. Do you think it's only in South Carolina?

But, since you ask for opinions, I'll offer one.

I would love to see all the undocumented immigrants in this country go on strik: just stop working. I know it would be an incredible hardship, and people-- families-- would suffer.

But if all these people unite and strike for a week, say, just watch how quickly the debate changes.

Alternatively, all the undocumented workers can simply leave those states where the xenophobes have pushed tough anti-immigrant laws or where anti-immigrant candidates are seeking election.

Leave those Republican dominated states; let them feel the pressure.

There are plenty of other states where these good people are welcome.

Like I said, it'll create hardship, but it will bring great benefits in the near future.

Augustine Beary
Augustine Beary

We should never allow people that came here illegally to become citizens.  They broke the law and should not be rewarded. However I understand they have families here, so if they want to stay, they can be allowed a guest worker VISA but can never be allowed to collect any welfare benefits for themselves or that are used on their family members.  If they feel this is harsh, they can go back to their native land.  We also need to get rid of the anchor baby law.  Also, make english the national language of the US and the folks that need to learn english can pay to learn it on their own dime.  Also, no free public education for illegal immigrants.  They can pay tuition for their education

friederike rich
friederike rich

Let them stay with their families it would be cruel and inhumane if there have to be ripped apart.

who knows
who knows

@Bill Smith  You mean those stupid laws which encourage illegal immigration rather than legal immigration?

who knows
who knows

@Loreen Keeth  You mean those stupid laws which encourage illegal immigration rather than legal immigration? And the same laws which encourage 1million legal immigrants every year without any basic requirement?

Joyce Thomas
Joyce Thomas

@Robert Smith  There is a LEGAL way for immigrants to enter the U.S. My great grandfather did it that way and yours probably did too, why start off a new life in a new country as a person breaking the law of the land? There is no substitute for staying within the law and I can't understand people who can't understand that. We are a humanitarian country, however, we must first make stable those that are already here and depending upon us to help them become citizens and we are definitely far from that. We cannot even help our American born residents with jobs and a stable way of life.  As for your last statement that we should focus upon big companies ie...Apple, Microsoft etc...to help the illegals look good then I might suggest the illegals need to learn our language first. Their children hold back our kids in classes who are stretched too thin and then teachers have to "dumb down" their curriculums and move at a slower pace so that even the most bright illegals are not left behind. I could go on in much more detail in almost all the areas of our lives that are affected when we allow illegal immigrants in without due process and I would include ALL the illegals not just the ones from our neighbors to the south. There are ways and there are ways that immigration needs to be changed to make it more accessible for those wanting to come here and merge into American life, this travesty we currently have is not it, nor is amnesty for those here illegally.

Felix Pineda
Felix Pineda

@Terri Marsh If they are so full of knowledge instead of coming here why don't they stay there and try to advance their own country. But your right on.

Kevin Rhee
Kevin Rhee

==CONTINUED==


Now, onto the most contentious issue over immigration reform: the pathway to legalization or citizenship, something the opponents call "rewarding an unlawful behavior." There's a kernel of truth to this: lax enforcement begets lax respect for established rules, and that's not good for this nation of laws. But we do this all the time: we "reward and forgive" by frequently reducing the jail time for convicts because they were able to get "right with the law," for which they are granted the "second chance" at life. But is the immigration law and system as a whole just? I argue that the so-called adherence to "rule of law" is only meaningful if the law is realistic, pragmatic, and in accordance with the country's tradition and culture (would someone please tell me what the "American culture" is, by the way?). And I argue that the laws which govern this country's immigration system satisfy none of these prerequisites.


The common rhetoric against immigration reform is that we just need to better enforce the law to combat illegal immigration. This is profoundly mistaken: illegal immigration happens because the current system is dysfunctional and outdated. For instance, the legal channels are too restricted and numerical quota is too low (for both of low- and high-skilled)--they can use some serious expansion in order to meet this country's economic needs. Like the S.744 proposes, a wide-open (though not perfect) merit-based system alike Canada or Australia's should replace the restrictive family- and employment-based systems so that most people around the world can at least have a line to wait in, which would effectively discourage them from jumping over a fence or overstaying a visa. This kind of legislative reform includes what Sen. Rand Paul had said at the UChicago IOP in April: the guest worker program must expand as well. In fact, though the current H-2A Agworker visa has no numerical limit, it is useless because it costs to sponsor and there is already a plenty of laborers in this country willing to work more for less (the so-called "11 million"), which in turn neutralizes any incentive for farmers to use that program. So beef up the border security and internal enforcement while concurrently legalizing the status of the 11 million: this is the most efficient way to prevent the future illegal immigration while stripping the 11 million of their bargaining power to work more for less, which thereby enables the impoverished US citizens to compete at the same level at the earliest possible time (we only live for so long, and I'd rather let Americans at the bottom of the ladder the earliest opportunity to a job). If you think this is wrong because it would allow the 11 million to compete for higher working positions, well, let me just say that if you can't outrun these people who had lost years’ worth of college education and livelihood on broken backs, maybe you just don't deserve them.

This isn't an open-border idea; while ideal, I understand it may not be the most feasible during this century, at least (well, it was actually like that almost 100 years ago, and that’s probably why your ancestors were able to come here with almost no problem at all; and this country was still sovereign back then!). But we have to either greatly expand the current legal system or face an illegal immigration. Yes, we admit more immigrants than any other country in the world, but that doesn't mean we must stop there--besides, that's using an absolute figure: Canada, in reality, accepts far more immigrants in terms of the percentage of the national population: 1/4 million per year for a country of 35 million people, as opposed to 1 million per year for the USA, which contains 314 million (and FYI, Canada's doing pretty well). Think this country can't accommodate for the new flow? Take a look at just how empty the inland of this country is (this country's agricultural production alone can sufficiently feed the entire world, btw), and you'd better be for a government-led population control program if you still think that way. Unlike some people, I'd rather let science and technology solve the energy crisis, not blame other people for merely existing and sharing this planet with--well--you and me.

No border--no government--no anything--can ever defeat people's desire to preserve and improve their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, and the power of love family members have for each other's well-being. Period. Come to think of it, I think Thomas Jefferson wrote that in a piece of paper we, as a nation, should take a look at again.

Alicia Andrews
Alicia Andrews

@International Student You are so right! This is another reason I'm against illegal immigration.Ii's so unfair to the people who played by the rules.How can we reward people who sneak in and not people like you who have worked so hard. 

Sarah Connor
Sarah Connor

@Ruth Bronstein You give amnesty and you are rewarding law breakers and inviting more.  If this administration allowed border patrol to follow the laws and also cracked down on employers and stopped allowing illegals to get entitlements and attend schools, many would self-deport.

Alicia Andrews
Alicia Andrews

@Ruth Bronstein I will never accept it! If you cave to people breaking your laws ,you look weak.And no country respects weak!

International Student
International Student

@Lothar Baier

Do you know recruiting company makes more money then consultant who really goes for work on H1-B visa and there recruiting company pays all involved channel 3$, 5$, 10$ per hour to all involved hiring people channel. So, without any question this recruiting company consultant gets job for the project.


Don't you think we have to bring this truth to the public very firmly?

International Student
International Student

@Lothar Baier


Do you know what is 35k to 55K work level efficiency, knowledge and expertise in comparison with your 25 years day and night hard work expertise with excellent efficiency work and paying you 75K? 

Bob Schmidt
Bob Schmidt

@Michael Otey Agreed.  The comprehensive approach has proven to be a disaster.  A complete and total immigration policy can easily be written in 5 pages of text.  The only purpose of thousands of pages of gobbledygook is to benefit the lawyers and immigration consultants.  Those thousands of pages in no way benefit immigrants, nor taxpayers, nor citizens.

Alicia Andrews
Alicia Andrews

@Bob Schmidt Fine.Don't tell them who they can hire.But,they should have to pay for everything their illegal employees is costing taxpayers.From their healthcare  to their kids education.How many do you think would hire illegal immigrants then?

paul grasso
paul grasso

@Juan Rios Lets just let the radical left wing extremist democrats keep polluting the country with a bunch of unwashed , uneducated , to racist to learn english , welfare collecting breeders. currently illegals cost taxpayers 400 billion a year at the local, state and federal level, it is estimated to cost 6 trillion dollars over a 10 year period to make 40 million of these criminals citizens , all so the dirty old corrupt democrats can exchange welfare for votes.

Sheryl Lord
Sheryl Lord

@Juan Rios what a crock we AMERICANS did just fine before you illegals found our border,and we will go back to just fine as soon as you all get deported.i farmed for 15 years.i know exactly how it is,but there are LEGAL AMERICANS with a work ethic.we can handle it,and we will be able to employ MORE AMERICANS when you go.

Richard Starr
Richard Starr

@friederike rich Gee, what about the families "ripped apart" when

1) A factory closes

2) The mine runs out of ore

3) One of the members commits a crime and goes to jail?

Claudia Larson
Claudia Larson

@friederike rich They knew when they B&Ed this country that the penalty for being here unauthorized is DEPORTATION.  Send the whole family back so they can be together in their MOTHER country!

who knows
who knows

@Joyce Thomas Current laws are so out dated it makes no sense anymore. If you are not really understand what current laws are I encourage you to look at those and comment rather than just post all talking points here.


Do you think current immigration laws make sense to you and has no issues at all? If not what is one big thing you would change in current immigration law.

Kevin Rhee
Kevin Rhee

@Terri Marsh @Kevin Rhee Really? That's it? Is that the best you got for me? How come we can't ever any substantive argument on anything these days? Come on--what else you got for me?

Alicia Andrews
Alicia Andrews

@friederike rich @Claudia Larson Yet ,you have none for the poor Americans who have lost their jobs to illegal immigrants.Did you happen to catch the CNN report a few years back that showed all the people in Dalton Georgia who had lost jobs in the carpet mills to illegal immigrants ?Or how about the people in construction ? I wonder where your compassion is for them?