China Wars: Zhou fights back, says Alibaba’s Ma is desperate

Hongyi Zhou.jpgZhou Hongyi, chairman of Chinese search engine start-up Qihoo, defended himself Sunday against allegations that he may have embezzled from or defrauded Yahoo China before leaving that company last year.

In a phone interview, Zhou (pictured here) responded to VentureBeat’s article on Friday that reported Yahoo China is about to file a lawsuit against him. That article was based on an interview with a source close to Yahoo China familiar with the suit preparations.

Zhou dismissed news about the suit, saying it was yet another behind-the-scenes effort by Jack Ma, the chief executive of Yahoo China’s parent company Alibaba, to tarnish Zhou’s reputation. Ma’s motivation, Zhou said, is to make Zhou a scapegoat for Ma’s own failures. Ma has made several missteps since taking over Yahoo China last year, Zhou said, which have resulted in declining market share.

The skirmish is significant because the stakes are high in China’s fast growing Internet economy. The red-hot search engine market is still wide open, by most accounts, even if Baidu enjoys a significant lead — because millions of new Chinese are coming online each year.

Jack Ma is one of the most respected figures in China, because he embodies the successful Chinese entrepreneur — able to hold his own against US competitors such as eBay. He is revered in China like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are here in the U.S. Some say pissing him off is like committing political suicide.

jackma.jpgZhou formed Qihoo, a competitor to Yahoo China, last year after he was ousted from Yahoo China by Ma (pictured left). The ouster came after Yahoo paid $1 billion to Alibaba to take over its China operations last year. Yahoo, in turn, negotiated a 40 percent stake in Alibaba.

Since leaving, Zhou has hired about 100 employees from Yahoo China.

VentureBeat’s article on Friday outlined the legal complaint being prepared by Yahoo China and Alibaba. The complaint will allege Zhou fostered a poor business culture while at Yahoo China, and that he became defensive as pressure mounted from U.S headquarters, according to the source. It says he built a moat around his China operations and started cutting his own deals on the side • taking kickbacks and making strategic investments for his own good – in preparation for his exit. It says he paid Yahoo China employees to leave the company.

Zhou said that Ma has no proof of any of these allegations. He said Ma is resorting to a desperate media campaign, knowing the charges won’t hold in court. “They’re all lies,” said Zhou, adding he wasn’t surprise to hear about them because Ma had spread other allegations about him for some time. A spokesman for Alibaba declined comment on Zhou’s comments.

Ma has come under increasing pressure from Yahoo, Zhou said, because of flip-flop decision-making. As Zhou explains it, in August 2005, Ma declared a new single focus on search. For example, Ma said Yahoo China would stop operating Yisou, a separate search engine Zhou had built up within Yahoo China’s portal offerings. Ma also said he’d discontinue the brand of 3721, which was the search engine Zhou had built years earlier (Yahoo bought 3721 in 2003.). Ma further said he’d change Yahoo china’s homepage (Yahoo.com.cn) from a portal into a simple search page; he eliminated Yahoo China’s portal staff. He also cut Yahoo’s wireless division, even though it was bringing in sizeable revenue and had cut deals with Chinese providers like China Mobile, Zhou said. (Chinese report on all this is here).

But then in Sept of this year, Yahoo resumed its homepage strategy, and began promoting a separate search engine page, Zhou said. “Now he [Ma] has completely flipped back and wants to rebuild Yahoo China into a portal. As a result, there’s no search strategy,” Zhou said. “He continues to lose market share. There’s brand ambiguity. No one’s sure whether its a search engine or a portal.”

Alibaba has already filed suit against Qihoo in a separate case, claiming Qihoo has inappropriately been labeling Yahoo china’s toolbar as malware and prompts deinstallation • and has hurt Yahoo china’s market share.

Zhou, meanwhile, has sent VentureBeat several documents, translating Chines media and other third-party research reports that say Yahoo China’s toolbar is spyware and deletes applications that try to remove it.

Yahoo China has lost more than 150 employees since Alibaba took over last year, Zhou said. They went to several companies beside Qihoo, including Google, Zhou said. He said such a significant exodus shows the problem is at Yahoo, and the defections to Qihoo testify to Zhou’s credibility and integrity. Many of them have worked with Zhou for years, he said.

Yahoo’s $1 billion investment is the largest in China’s Internet industry, Zhou notes. This had meant “a tremendous amount of pressure placed on Jack Ma’s shoulders to prove he’s doing the right thing,” Zhou said. “He needs to find a scapegoat.” Zhou said he had “huge respect” for Yahoo’s co-founder Jerry Yang, who has helped oversee Yahoo’s China strategy. However, “Jerry backed the wrong person, Jack ma. Willingly or unwillingly, Jerry is being held hostage, he’s being used as a tool.”

Zhou said Yahoo China had even resorted to taking an anonymous report critical of Qihoo from a Chinese online forum, translated it into English, and sent it to Yahoo’s Yang. Yang, in turn, forwarded it on to Michale Moritz, a venture capitalist who is backing Qihoo. These efforts are designed to persuade Moritz and other investors to forsake backing Qihoo, Zhou said. “Ma has truly become irrational abuot this campaign.”

Zhou said Qihoo’s reference to Yahoo China’s toolbar as a malware is justified by third-party reports • such one performed by Russian company Kaspersky — consistently listing Yahoo’s toolbar at the top of the list of about 200 popular malwares. “It’s in the top three, Zhou said. Qihoo is not unfairly targeting Yahoo, he said.

Zhou disputed allegations that he waged an anonymous public relations campaign in an effort to hurt Yahoo China’s contracts with companies like MSN. On the contrary, he helped Yahoo China renew contracts with companies before he left, he says. The contracts were terminated a year later because Yahoo China’s good-will has run out, and because MSN was launching its own search efforts, Zhou said.

Zhou rejected claims he’d taken kickbacks or used Yahoo resources to enrich himself or create a competitor to Yahoo China. He’d helped form partnerships with more than 20,000 Web sites while running Yahoo China, he said. Qihoo was one of those. Only after his exit did he become chairman of that company, he said.

(VentureBeat also spoke with Fan Zhang, a partner at Sequoia’s China operations. Zhang said he was puzzled by Alibaba’s use of the anonymous online forum posting, and was dismayed that Alibaba was also spreading untrue rumors about Sequoia • i.e, that it unfairly coerces entrepreneurs to work for its companies.)

Finally, Zhou said that Jack Ma has used a similar personal strategy against eBay’s Meg Whitman. He cited reports that show Ma has tried to shake the confidence of eBay employees in China. (See reports here and here for example, where Ma is declaring victory, and where rumors are circulating about eBay’s departure, even though Whitman says she’s committed to China). “He spread false rumors about Meg Whitman,” Zhou said. “It’s his strategy. He thinks, if he does this to someone long enough, they’ll self-destruct.”

Next Story: Topix raises $15 million more to build out local news
Previous Story: Powerset gets $12.5M at whopper valuation, to go after search holy grail

Bookmark and Share

Tags: , , , , , , , ,

Photo of Matt Marshall

About the Author, Matt Marshall

Matt Marshall is editor and CEO of VentureBeat. Follow him on Twitter at @mmarshall, and follow VentureBeat on Twitter at @venturebeat.

  • Wang Hong
    "Jack Ma is one of the most respected figures in China, because he embodies the successful Chinese entrepreneur — able to hold his own against US competitors such as eBay. He is revered in China like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are here in the U.S. Some say pissing him off is like committing political suicide."

    Give me a break! Is this something your "source close to Yahoo China" told you too? Many people here thinks he's a clawn who's only good at talking huge talks.

    On the other hand, Zhou was the guy who actually created the Yahoo toolbar he's trying so hard to kill. It made him several hundred million dolloars when he sold it to Yahoo.

    Don't believe either of these guys, they are just using the press to get what they wanted. While you just became the latest victim of their get-attention-through-uninformed-journalists scheme, their site traffic probably increated antoher 10%, which will get them more investments from their investors next month.
  • Wang Hong
    BTW, Welcome to China.
  • Hill
    Totally agree with the guy above. Both Ma and Chou have no busienss ethnics. They have no idea about the user itself.Mareware and adware are treasures to them but nightmare to the users. BTW, yahoo China is shrunking, ebay china is dying and google china is making joking.haha.
  • No, this that reference to Ma didn't come from Yahoo source. It came from chatting with folks in China, while i was there in December, and subsequent conversations. Don't forget that while Gates and Jobs are both respected, they're also despited as arrogant and conniving by many -- so this is not incompatible.
  • Inside Man
    Do you know what is Mr. Zhou's behind-the-sceens effort? He sent a lawer's letter officially to most of Chinese newspapers/online media covering the IT industry and threatened to sue if any of them dare to publish news about Yahoo's allegations against him. That was almost 3 months ago when Yahoo China first acknowledged Zhou's overt defiance.
    And now you know why Zhou, "Father of Hooligans", has no or little negative coverage in Chinese news media. If you can read Chinese, I suggest you search news reports about him on SINA or SOHU Websites, and read comments on every story that happened to have mentioned him. You will find yourself that there is quite an outrage directed at him.
    Meanwhile, WANG HONG is right, Mr. Ma or any other businessman in China, does not command such a social status/political power like you described. Ma has been a controversial person, partly because of his "big mouth" and partly of Alibaba's business model. Not very many people are convinced of his success as Alibaba are doomed to fail in their eyes.
    Nevertheless, Ma's Alibaba and Taobao take an almighty lead over their competitors. Ma's success itself could be a reason for Zhou's grudge. Zhou used to direct his grudge at Robin Li of Baidu.com, speaking publicly that Li was one of two persons he hated the most. Zhou regreted he did not make his 3721 a real Web search engine as Li did with Baidu.com, hence lost the greatest opportunity to Li. Indeed, 3721 was not a Web search engine at all. What it did was match an advertiser' Webpage to a keyword pre-sold to that advertiser. 3721 did not use a bot crawling the Web like a real search engine does, instead, the match was done in its indexed database established offline and manually. For this reason, 3721 was definitely not the first search engine in China.
  • Inside Man
    I said Ma is controversial but he was never questioned about his business ethics before he took over Yahoo!China. Ma refused to enter online games business as he believes online games do no good to the youth, and he hates to use porno themes in marketing and promotions. Guess what made Qihoo so hot? One, porno - full of pornographic pictures and articles. Two, the Qihoo-Yahoo twist. The Qihoo-Yahoo twist was, in my opinion, also an product deliberately designed by Zhou to draw publicity for his Qihoo Website.
  • Developers who prefer Open Sou
    Yahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnYahoo.com.cnI said Ma is controversial but he was never questioned about his business ethics before he took over Yahoo!China. Ma refused to enter online games business as he believes online games do no good to the youth, and he hates to use porno themes in marketing and promotions. Guess what made Qihoo so hot? One, porno - full of pornographic pictures and articles. Two, the Qihoo-Yahoo twist. The Qihoo-Yahoo twist was, in my opinion, also an product deliberately designed by Zhou to draw publicity for his Qihoo Website.I said Ma is controversial but he was never questioned about his business ethics before he took over Yahoo!China. Ma refused to enter online games business as he believes online games do no good to the youth, and he hates to use porno themes in marketing and promotions. Guess what made Qihoo so hot? One, porno - full of pornographic pictures and articles. Two, the Qihoo-Yahoo twist. The Qihoo-Yahoo twist was, in my opinion, also an product deliberately designed by Zhou to draw publicity for his Qihoo Website.I said Ma is controversial but he was never questioned about his business ethics before he took over Yahoo!China. Ma refused to enter online games business as he believes online games do no good to the youth, and he hates to use porno themes in marketing and promotions. Guess what made Qihoo so hot? One, porno - full of pornographic pictures and articles. Two, the Qihoo-Yahoo twist. The Qihoo-Yahoo twist was, in my opinion, also an product deliberately designed by Zhou to draw publicity for his Qihoo Website.I said Ma is controversial but he was never questioned about his business ethics before he took over Yahoo!China. Ma refused to enter online games business as he believes online games do no good to the youth, and he hates to use porno themes in marketing and promotions. Guess what made Qihoo so hot? One, porno - full of pornographic pictures and articles. Two, the Qihoo-Yahoo twist. The Qihoo-Yahoo twist was, in my opinion, also an product deliberately designed by Zhou to draw publicity for his Qihoo Website.I said Ma is controversial but he was never questioned about his business ethics before he took over Yahoo!China. Ma refused to enter online games business as he believes online games do no good to the youth, and he hates to use porno themes in marketing and promotions. Guess what made Qihoo so hot? One, porno - full of pornographic pictures and articles. Two, the Qihoo-Yahoo twist. The Qihoo-Yahoo twist was, in my opinion, also an product deliberately designed by Zhou to draw publicity for his Qihoo Website.
  • ChinaUser
    If Ma is really a desperate, Zhou should be a desperate X 2 + punk.

    Zhou created spyware and made a lot of chinese software programmer follow. Now day the spyware become a serious problem in China.

    Yahoo is eating the shit it made when they pay so much to buy a spyware company from Zhou.
  • torre
    Who kidnapped Jack Ma at gunpoint when he went to Malibu on business in the 1990s?
  • aeonyy
    I dont like Zhou, he really has no business ethics.
  • Hello! Good Site! Thanks you! eekrcwwpee
  • I think that business is very shady in the entire region.